kyle
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Post by kyle on Sept 19, 2023 17:21:29 GMT -7
I just recently had the check engine light come on. I'm interested to see what you all would do in this situation. - 8,644 miles... Maybe 2-3k of that was ridden with the heated gear on. - No mods impacting engine performance/emissions. Only "mods" are engine protectors and luggage. It was cold so I had my heated gear on ( www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/hotwired-12v-bluetooth-heated-jacket-liner and www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/hotwired-12v-heated-leather-gloves ) The bike was running totally fine. I had the tank down to around .5 gallons left, so I went to fill up. Filled up with 93 octane from BP, and immediately upon turning the bike on, a solid check engine light showed up. I didn't notice the light for around 2-3 minutes... I'm always used to a yellow light on the dash because of the cruise control but I'm disappointed I didn't realize sooner. Once I noticed, I pulled over to listen to the bike, check oil, exhaust, coolant temps... The bike was operating completely normal. Quickshifter, cruise control, lights, etc were all normal. I immediately unplugged my heated gear and rode home 20 miles (freezing my tits off) I disconnected the battery for 10 minutes, but the check engine still showed. I tried opening/closing the gas cap (per dealership recommendation), but no beans. I turned the bike on multiple times but the light didn't go away. Then, when I went to go show my friend the CEL... The bike fired up without a CEL. Again, everything is perfectly normal with the bike that I have seen. So my guess is the bike needs X cycles (maybe 10?) of starting without an issue in order for the light to go away. The light has stayed off after 100 miles, 1 fillup, and 2-3 starts. My theory: Sometimes, when riding with heated gear my bike makes a funny smell. I don't know how to describe it... Kinda smells like a hot dead animal. Could this be the stator/rectifier being put under too much strain from my heated gear? My smooth brain never thought twice about it until now. I've been using this setup with my FZ8 for 20k miles and never had an issue. Maybe the battery dropped below a certain voltage, triggering a low voltage fault or something... I checked the battery voltage, it was at ~13.6 volts (shortly after turning the bike off). Some questions - - Is there any way that I can see what the engine code was without the yamaha diagnostic software? I want to know what that engine code was. - Would you all take your bike to the dealership to get scanned? I'm not sure if this would be covered by warranty since there's no active check engine light. (I did purchase the yamaha extended warranty... like a sucker, against the suggestion of most). My local dealer said it would take about an hour, so probably would cost $200 outside of warranty. - Are there any 2022+ owners out there who have any mods drawing more current, such as heated gear or external lights? Have you noticed any weird smells coming from the bike? - Is anyone familiar with a bad smell coming from these bikes if the stator is put under too much strain? Interested to get your thoughts/opinions. EDIT: Feb 20, 2024 - Updated title to include P2135 in the title for future searchability of forum-goers. |
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Post by RedAndBlack on Sept 19, 2023 19:43:15 GMT -7
Before I get into speculation, really you should definitely try to pull the stored codes off of the bike to see what it was from. Emissions are always a finicky thing and a persistent headache for riders everywhere throwing temporary codes that either clear themselves or are the result of a faulty sensor. This could be the case and basically throws anything else I say below this out of the window. You should be able to check the stored codes with just a regular OBD scanner. You need a special bridge wire to connect an OBD reader to our bikes (our bikes don't use the standard OBD cable so you need a bridge wire). I use a bluetooth OBD reader that connects to an App on my phone that downloads stored codes. I definitely wouldn't take it to a dealer. You should be able to do it yourself with minimal cost with the added benefit of always having the reader at your disposal to help with future issues. Your bike certainly shouldn't be smelling like anything burning. Where there's the smell of burning, there's something being burnt. Since your gear connects directly to the battery (I presume), you really only have one wire that you need to trace to see if there's any melting or burning going on. So yea, you might as well pop the seat off and take a look. Inspect the fuse as well. Badly designed gear can have fuses that fail to break. ProjectFarm on Youtube just did a series on knock off power tool batteries that this was a major issue that he really highlighted this problem with their overload protection (basically a built in fuse). A heated jacket and gloves will usually fall into the margin of excess power being generated by a bike. Revzilla has a detailed article about what the typical draws on a 12V battery is and how you can calculate accessories, including heated gear. www.revzilla.com/common-tread/how-to-add-heated-gear-to-your-motorcycleNow whether or not a specific item of heated gear is designed correctly with the correct gauge wire and with the correct fuse and other CE or UL approved electronic parts is a whole different story. I've seen two friends bikes burn to the ground with fires starting at the battery due to suspected faulty add on accessories connected at the battery. |
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kyle
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Post by kyle on Sept 20, 2023 7:55:51 GMT -7
Before I get into speculation, really you should definitely try to pull the stored codes off of the bike to see what it was from. [..] You should be able to check the stored codes with just a regular OBD scanner [..] Your bike certainly shouldn't be smelling like anything burning. Where there's the smell of burning, there's something being burnt. Since your gear connects directly to the battery (I presume), you really only have one wire that you need to trace to see if there's any melting or burning going on. [....] Inspect the fuse as well. A heated jacket and gloves will usually fall into the margin of excess power being generated by a bike. Revzilla has a detailed article about what the typical draws on a 12V battery is and how you can calculate accessories, including heated gear. www.revzilla.com/common-tread/how-to-add-heated-gear-to-your-motorcycleThanks so much for the advice. I didn't realize I can get the code history, I thought only active codes. This is awesome. I just bought this from Amazon - www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09GX4PVQ1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 - I can borrow a bluetooth code reader from a friend for now. I did my best to try and find where the bad smell is coming from... I smelled the side of the stator, and the clutch, I really can't narrow it down. I even thought it was coming from the engine guards I bought, but it was normal. I need to spend more time to narrow this down. I will also go through the revzilla article to see if I'm drawing too much electricity. According to the pages I linked, the jacket draws 6.2 amps, and the gloves draw 2 amps. |
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kyle
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Post by kyle on Oct 2, 2023 17:13:47 GMT -7
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Post by mt10orc on Oct 2, 2023 17:30:33 GMT -7
Looks like your TPS is having an issue. If you have a warranty that should be covered.
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kyle
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Post by kyle on Oct 3, 2023 15:47:51 GMT -7
Looks like your TPS is having an issue. If you have a warranty that should be covered. Agreed - I am super surprised that the bike is showing issues this early on. The bike shows no rideability issues and no issues with stalling, etc. Unfortunately, the earliest appointment that my shop offered was October 11th.. So I need to wait a while to get closure. Anyway... Hopefully I have an update by October 13th or so. |
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kyle
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Post by kyle on Nov 3, 2023 23:19:39 GMT -7
I wanted to post an update on this topic.
To recap: 2022 Mt-10.
On 9/15/2023 - 8,644 miles - I got a check engine light. I called the dealer on 9/16, they recommended to try a few things but they didn't rid the CEL. After starting/stopping the bike approx 10 times the light went away. At this time, I did not have an adapter to read the code.
On 10/2/2023 - 8,816 miles, the check engine light came back on. I was able to read the code as P2135, throttle position sensor voltage irregularity.
On 10/3/2023 - I called the dealership to make an appointment. The earliest they could take me was October 11th.
On 10/10/2023 - 8,825 miles - I brought the bike to the dealer. I have to sign a paper for $170. I mentioned the bike was still under warranty, but they mentioned it's only a warranty claim if a repair is made...
On 10/17/2023 - I call for an update after receiving nothing from the dealer. "They set everything to a normal baseline and now can begin running diagnostics and test rides trying to replicate the issue."
On 10/21/2023 - I call and got basically the same answer.
On 10/26/2023 - I call and got basically the same answer.
On 10/31/2023 - I call and got basically the same answer. During each of those calls, they were saying that techs were actively looking at the bike and running diagnostics on it. They said they have been doing a lot of test rides to make sure the issue doesn't happen again. Since it seemed to happen 150 miles after the first time.
On 11/3/2023 - I finally RECEIVE my first call from them saying I can pick up the bike.
On 11/4/2023 - 8,830 miles - I pick up the bike. The dealer says that my bike was run through all possible diagnostics and they did multiple test rides on the bike. I pointed out that they only went 5 miles, but the guy just said that everything is done through the YDS now... ok...
Anyway - I still had to pay the $170 for them to change absolutely nothing on a brand new bike under warranty. I'm a little annoyed about that. At least they mostly filled up the tank.
I put 100 miles on the bike today, no CEL. ... But, it's getting really cold here in NJ. I don't think I can pack on many more miles until next season.
Is it cynical for me to secretly hope the issue keeps happening so maybe it can qualify as a lemon?
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Post by mt10orc on Nov 5, 2023 23:07:28 GMT -7
Freaking stealerships, keep ur bike for weeks, tell u a song and dance and you call them out, then give u some more bs and stick their hand out for payment when you know all the did was a clear the code and 5 mile test ride.
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Post by willl84 on Nov 7, 2023 7:41:26 GMT -7
Unfortunately they charge if it isn't a warrantable item or if they can't duplicate the problem. I've worked at dealers for years and that's the norm. Most will charge the diag fee up front and then refund it if it's a warranty issue. But at leas tit's noted in their system that you've had the issue so if it pops up again and they can figure it out out of warranty they might be able to get Yamaha to goodwill it seeing that it was an issue whale it was still under warranty.
As far as the lemon thing goes that only applies if they can't fix the problem after so many attempts. If they can't even find a problem then there's no problem to fix lol.
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kyle
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Post by kyle on Nov 7, 2023 15:04:05 GMT -7
Unfortunately they charge if it isn't a warrantable item or if they can't duplicate the problem. I've worked at dealers for years and that's the norm. Most will charge the diag fee up front and then refund it if it's a warranty issue. But at leas tit's noted in their system that you've had the issue so if it pops up again and they can figure it out out of warranty they might be able to get Yamaha to goodwill it seeing that it was an issue whale it was still under warranty. As far as the lemon thing goes that only applies if they can't fix the problem after so many attempts. If they can't even find a problem then there's no problem to fix lol. I appreciate your insight! You are 100% correct with the process. I bought the extended 5 year warranty like a simp, against every else's recommendations... So far it has not paid off lol. I signed a paper upfront for $170, before any diagnosis. After them having my bike for 2 weeks, I asked "It sounds like you guys are putting a lot of time into the bike, will I be charged for this, or how does warranty work" They told me: - I won't be charged more than the $170 unless they call me to say so - Unless a repair is made, it's not warranty. Regarding the lemon, all I can do is dream. I did think that the check engine light coming on would be the "problem" but I guess not. Anyway - thank you! |
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Post by willl84 on Nov 8, 2023 10:02:37 GMT -7
Unfortunately they charge if it isn't a warrantable item or if they can't duplicate the problem. I've worked at dealers for years and that's the norm. Most will charge the diag fee up front and then refund it if it's a warranty issue. But at leas tit's noted in their system that you've had the issue so if it pops up again and they can figure it out out of warranty they might be able to get Yamaha to goodwill it seeing that it was an issue whale it was still under warranty. As far as the lemon thing goes that only applies if they can't fix the problem after so many attempts. If they can't even find a problem then there's no problem to fix lol. I appreciate your insight! You are 100% correct with the process. I bought the extended 5 year warranty like a simp, against every else's recommendations... So far it has not paid off lol. I signed a paper upfront for $170, before any diagnosis. After them having my bike for 2 weeks, I asked "It sounds like you guys are putting a lot of time into the bike, will I be charged for this, or how does warranty work" They told me: - I won't be charged more than the $170 unless they call me to say so - Unless a repair is made, it's not warranty. Regarding the lemon, all I can do is dream. I did think that the check engine light coming on would be the "problem" but I guess not. Anyway - thank you! Yea the light is just a symptom of the problem. If it didn't store any codes and it's not active when they check it then it's useless unfortunately. It'd be nice if all code triggers were stored. Some are but some aren't. The best thing to do, if possible, is to head straight to the dealer next time it pops on and don't shut the bike off and hopefully they can just bring it in and check the codes quick. Intermittent CEL's are the most annoying ones to try to figure out lol |
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kyle
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Post by kyle on Nov 18, 2023 15:37:59 GMT -7
Something happened today -
Today (November 18th, 2023) at approx 9,200 miles, the check engine light came back on.
I just dropped it off at the dealership today, to start work on Tuesday... Being a holiday week, I'm not expecting very fast results... But will post an update as they happen.
I didn't even scan the bike this time for the code, I assume it was going to be the same code as before.
The dealer did not seem so enthusiastic to hear back from me... The guy on the phone recognized my voice/and or the situation and was like "Is this the MT-10?" ... Oh well. This time when I signed the work order, it was for $0.00... So I at least know I won't be paying for this visit.
I hope the dealer is able to narrow down the root cause of the issue.
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Post by willl84 on Nov 18, 2023 15:42:29 GMT -7
Something happened today - Today (November 18th, 2023) at approx 9,200 miles, the check engine light came back on. I just dropped it off at the dealership today, to start work on Tuesday... Being a holiday week, I'm not expecting very fast results... But will post an update as they happen. I didn't even scan the bike this time for the code, I assume it was going to be the same code as before. The dealer did not seem so enthusiastic to hear back from me... The guy on the phone recognized my voice/and or the situation and was like "Is this the MT-10?" ... Oh well. This time when I signed the work order, it was for $0.00... So I at least know I won't be paying for this visit. I hope the dealer is able to narrow down the root cause of the issue. Hopefully they can get it figured out this time! |
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kyle
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Post by kyle on Dec 3, 2023 19:05:20 GMT -7
Okay - so the dealership just called me back yesterday. They said they were able to get help from a Yamaha technician. (I hope I can regurgitate some of what the dealership told me correctly.) They said that one of the sensors on the throttle position sensor had a reading which was out of the expected margins. So they are replacing the throttle position sensor. It does kind of suck that it took so long for them to figure out the issue... The guy gave me a lot of words, and my pea brain didn't comprehend a lot of them. Maybe they are replacing more than just the throttle position sensor, idk. But I asked the guy "If the bike wasn't under warranty, how much would this repair come out to?" He said "$900 - $1,400" ... If the bike wasn't under warranty, I would have tried to replace the throttle position sensor.. The part is $73. So idk if I can call this a win for buying the extended warranty or not... I technically "saved" money if I got all my work done at a dealer... But for work that I would have tried myself, it would have cost a lot less.. (but at the risk of horribly messing up everything, which happens often to me) I will post another update with the full work order. www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/2022/mt10-mt10nb-b5y2/intake-2www.partzilla.com/product/yamaha/B3L-85885-01-00?ref=1cf9f5ea832708687155414d853ed06c26927b58 |
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cowthulhu
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Post by cowthulhu on Dec 4, 2023 17:31:42 GMT -7
Okay - so the dealership just called me back yesterday. They said they were able to get help from a Yamaha technician. (I hope I can regurgitate some of what the dealership told me correctly.) They said that one of the sensors on the throttle position sensor had a reading which was out of the expected margins. So they are replacing the throttle position sensor. It does kind of suck that it took so long for them to figure out the issue... The guy gave me a lot of words, and my pea brain didn't comprehend a lot of them. Maybe they are replacing more than just the throttle position sensor, idk. But I asked the guy "If the bike wasn't under warranty, how much would this repair come out to?" He said "$900 - $1,400" ... If the bike wasn't under warranty, I would have tried to replace the throttle position sensor.. The part is $73. So idk if I can call this a win for buying the extended warranty or not... I technically "saved" money if I got all my work done at a dealer... But for work that I would have tried myself, it would have cost a lot less.. (but at the risk of horribly messing up everything, which happens often to me) I will post another update with the full work order. www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/2022/mt10-mt10nb-b5y2/intake-2www.partzilla.com/product/yamaha/B3L-85885-01-00?ref=1cf9f5ea832708687155414d853ed06c26927b58My guess is the dealership wants you to think the warranty really saved you money in hopes you someday buy more from them. That issue would be around $200 to $300 at a compentent shop which would be the labor and the part if it really was just one sensor. Look up code, order and install part, test bike to see if it works, done. $1400 is like ducati valve service numbers, not for a yamaha sensor. |
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Post by willl84 on Dec 4, 2023 17:35:13 GMT -7
Okay - so the dealership just called me back yesterday. They said they were able to get help from a Yamaha technician. (I hope I can regurgitate some of what the dealership told me correctly.) They said that one of the sensors on the throttle position sensor had a reading which was out of the expected margins. So they are replacing the throttle position sensor. It does kind of suck that it took so long for them to figure out the issue... The guy gave me a lot of words, and my pea brain didn't comprehend a lot of them. Maybe they are replacing more than just the throttle position sensor, idk. But I asked the guy "If the bike wasn't under warranty, how much would this repair come out to?" He said "$900 - $1,400" ... If the bike wasn't under warranty, I would have tried to replace the throttle position sensor.. The part is $73. So idk if I can call this a win for buying the extended warranty or not... I technically "saved" money if I got all my work done at a dealer... But for work that I would have tried myself, it would have cost a lot less.. (but at the risk of horribly messing up everything, which happens often to me) I will post another update with the full work order. www.partzilla.com/catalog/yamaha/motorcycle/2022/mt10-mt10nb-b5y2/intake-2www.partzilla.com/product/yamaha/B3L-85885-01-00?ref=1cf9f5ea832708687155414d853ed06c26927b58My guess is the dealership wants you to think the warranty really saved you money in hopes you someday buy more from them. That issue would be around $200 to $300 at a compentent shop which would be the labor and the part if it really was just one sensor. Look up code, order and install part, test bike to see if it works, done. $1400 is like ducati valve service numbers, not for a yamaha sensor. Agreed. It's not like it takes very long to get to it. You probably couldn't do it yourself though, my guess is you need the Yamaha dealer software to calibrate it properly. I remember on my old TLR you had to put it into dealer mode to adjust it properly but things have preferred beyond that these days lol. |
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kyle
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Post by kyle on Jan 31, 2024 19:55:01 GMT -7
Ok I have an update!
Work began 11/21/2023.
On 12/2/2023, the dealer called me to say they are going to replace the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS).
Yesterday, 1/30/2024, I got my FIRST call. I didn't get anything in the meantime.
Today, 1/31/2024, I picked it up. Since 7/26/2022 it's been there a total of 98 days...
The work order states:
"Inspected TPS values on YDT and values are reading out of spec. Called Yamaha Tech line to review results. Yamaha recommended to replace both TPS and and Accelerator Position Sensor (Throttle Grip Assembly)."
When they rode the bike to me I immediately pointed out the rear left blinker was broken (snapped off of the fender hanging by wires). They said they will put in a work order to replace it... I'll keep you updated on how long that takes... For now, they glued and taped it...
Since the shop was closing for the day and I was just getting out of work, I had to leave the bike there for a few hours while I got my gear and rode the bike home.
On the ride home, I experienced some really weird behavior. I had the bike in mode D (rain mode essentially)
As I would turn the throttle, from 1-4K rpm, everything was good. Then, it would hang at that RPM until I gave the bike more gas. This was EXTREMELY noticeable. It felt like I as I would roll on the throttle, the bike was dying... I have 9k miles on the bike and I know this behavior wasn't normal.
This behavior was persistent and reproducible each time for around 4-5 minutes. After waiting at a stop light, everything went completely normal. I've already called the dealership back.
Any ideas what that could be? Could there be two different throttle mappings for when the bike is cold and warm? Maybe they messed up the throttle mapping when cold?
Maybe the new TPS/ACS were calibrating themselves?
This weekend I'm going to be doing more testing
The dealer claims they did a test ride but who knows.
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Post by willl84 on Feb 1, 2024 6:47:22 GMT -7
Ok I have an update! Work began 11/21/2023. On 12/2/2023, the dealer called me to say they are going to replace the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS). Yesterday, 1/30/2024, I got my FIRST call. I didn't get anything in the meantime. Today, 1/31/2024, I picked it up. Since 7/26/2022 it's been there a total of 98 days... The work order states: "Inspected TPS values on YDT and values are reading out of spec. Called Yamaha Tech line to review results. Yamaha recommended to replace both TPS and and Accelerator Position Sensor (Throttle Grip Assembly)." When they rode the bike to me I immediately pointed out the rear left blinker was broken (snapped off of the fender hanging by wires). They said they will put in a work order to replace it... I'll keep you updated on how long that takes... For now, they glued and taped it... Since the shop was closing for the day and I was just getting out of work, I had to leave the bike there for a few hours while I got my gear and rode the bike home. On the ride home, I experienced some really weird behavior. I had the bike in mode D (rain mode essentially) As I would turn the throttle, from 1-4K rpm, everything was good. Then, it would hang at that RPM until I gave the bike more gas. This was EXTREMELY noticeable. It felt like I as I would roll on the throttle, the bike was dying... I have 9k miles on the bike and I know this behavior wasn't normal. This behavior was persistent and reproducible each time for around 4-5 minutes. After waiting at a stop light, everything went completely normal. I've already called the dealership back. Any ideas what that could be? Could there be two different throttle mappings for when the bike is cold and warm? Maybe they messed up the throttle mapping when cold? Maybe the new TPS/ACS were calibrating themselves? This weekend I'm going to be doing more testing The dealer claims they did a test ride but who knows. That doesn't sound right at all. I ride my 2019 in cold conditions (to freezing and slightly below) and there's never any hang in the RPM, even if I don't let the engine warm up before leaving the house - which I almost never do as it's loud and I don't want to wake my kids up at 6AM lol. Sounds like something wasn't calibrated correctly or something. I'm still amazed that it literally took months for them to check it with YDS and contact Yamaha technical. That should have happened in 1-2 weeks max. Also the signals on these break if you look at them wrong - they're terrible lol. Mine had a broken front one when I picked it up from the dealer new and they said they'd replace it free but I asked if they could mail it to me since I'm an hour away and I'd replace it myself. I got it in the mail a week later with a $25 gift card to their store. It was a PITA to replace and the invoice showed those signals cost over $180 EACH. I also broke my rear ones myself, both times accidentally, by barely brushing them. Super glued them back together and they held for years until I installed TST MEch signals in the front and the Blaster-X integrated tail light in the rear. |
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kyle
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Post by kyle on Feb 1, 2024 10:52:45 GMT -7
That doesn't sound right at all. I ride my 2019 in cold conditions (to freezing and slightly below) and there's never any hang in the RPM, even if I don't let the engine warm up before leaving the house - which I almost never do as it's loud and I don't want to wake my kids up at 6AM lol. Sounds like something wasn't calibrated correctly or something. I'm still amazed that it literally took months for them to check it with YDS and contact Yamaha technical. That should have happened in 1-2 weeks max. Also the signals on these break if you look at them wrong - they're terrible lol. Mine had a broken front one when I picked it up from the dealer new and they said they'd replace it free but I asked if they could mail it to me since I'm an hour away and I'd replace it myself. I got it in the mail a week later with a $25 gift card to their store. It was a PITA to replace and the invoice showed those signals cost over $180 EACH. I also broke my rear ones myself, both times accidentally, by barely brushing them. Super glued them back together and they held for years until I installed TST MEch signals in the front and the Blaster-X integrated tail light in the rear. Thanks for the feedback! Yes, I'm definitely "looking forward" to seeing if I can reproduce the issue with the throttle this weekend. That's an urgent issue that I need to get resolved ASAP. I'm hoping it was just the computer calibrating to the new assembly or something... I'm not sure. You are 100% right about the blinkers, they really break easily. When pushing the bike into the garage, I knocked the front one out of the socket... It was a pain in the nards to get it back in... When I got the bike back to the garage, I realized how flimsy the rear ones are... |
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kyle
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Post by kyle on Feb 3, 2024 17:22:24 GMT -7
No surprise, service department didn't get my voicemail so I called again today. They said that the behavior I'm having is probably normal due to OEM fuel mappings running lean... They said I can get an aftermarket device to assist with this.. (sounds like a power commander or something?). I insisted that I have 9k miles on the bike now and know how the bike runs when cold. But now I'm really second guessing myself.
I can't tell if it's normal, or I'm just being crazy/paranoid. It doesn't make sense... How would them replacing the TPS and handlebar switch/acceleration sensor cause this behavior only when the bike is cold and running? When I rev the bike in neutral it feels completely normal. The moment I start moving and give it a very small amount of gas, I feel like there is a dead zone where nothing happens... But then when it's warm, I swear there's no dead zone. Is there any reasonable explanation that could explain this craziness?
I tried to take a video, but I think it sucks.
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