kyle
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Post by kyle on Mar 18, 2024 17:55:09 GMT -7
Well at least you ruled out the plugs being the culprit. Sorry to hear about the broken bits, hopefully nothing too major though. It might be worth it to get ahold of a lemon law lawyer at this point. I know the rule is 3 times without it being fixed properly. Might still be beneficial to talk to them and see what they have to say. It sounds to me like something with the throttle position sensor, but I'm just speculating Thanks for the advice! I actually just reached out to a lemon lawyer. Again, I really don't think the issue is with any Yamaha parts (except for the original CeL).. Just the installation of the replaced TPS and throttle grip assembly/handlebar switch/acceleration sensor (whatever the hell you want to call it) Anyway - I called Yamaha Corporate on Friday, they will speak with the dealer tomorrow. I just got a response from the lemon lawyer yesterday saying that they want to speak further, so I'll also be speaking with them tomorrow... I can't wait to get back on an MT-10. Such a great bike.
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travis
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Post by travis on Mar 19, 2024 13:59:59 GMT -7
TPS/APS sensors have to be adjusted to spec. They use the dealer only Yamaha Diagnostic System to set each to a specified value-range, and then check to be sure the two are within spec range of each other. This is done by cracking a screw loose on each and then moving them in hair-like increments to achieve the values, then locking the screws down. I've read that if the sensors are set to "edge of spec values", then weird shit can happen like throwing codes, erratic throttle response, etc. Say the TPS is set to the low end of spec, and APS is set to the high end of spec, this is where crap can get weird.
There may be a way for a DIYer to calibrate the sensors using voltage numbers, but I am talking out my ass as an internet rando here, so assume this is conjecture. My bike was misbehaving all over the place after an ECU flash and I went on an exploratory mission to measure TPS/APS values to try and make sense of them. (as an aside, reflashing it fixed its issues) These are 4 wire sensors (unlike old 3 wire versions you see on Youtube etc) which have like a redundant circuit that I assume the ECU keeps tabs on to be sure they aren't in a fail-state. Critical components and all. The service manual does spec what voltage these are expected to sit at baseline, and I was able to confirm this between my 2014 FZ09 and my 2018 MT10. Same TPS/APS part numbers, specs, the whole lot. Difference is, my FZ09 has a built in instrument cluster diag which allowed me to make sense of what their values mean in the manual. Cracked a sensor loose and recorded the voltage values alongside the Yamaha integer values. Each numbered adjustment value is equivalent to 0.044v (baseline spec for instance is 0.63-0.73v) To adjust it by "1" Yamaha value accurately is very difficult, as the sensor moves a tiny bit when tightening or loosening the screws and just moving it precisely is tough. All this to say that if you have a technician that isn't detail oriented or motivated to check their work then I can see how these things could be set incorrectly and lead to this situation you're in. Your suspicion of the problem being an install issue has merit. Also possible you've got some defective components in there but logically, they ought to be testing the calibration of the sensors first. Pretty annoying they sent you on the spark plugs route but hey we ought to be verifying the cheap and easy stuff first. Have they checked the coil packs yet? Maybe that's next? I'd be curious to know what the TPS APS values are so they can be compared against the service manual.
These are just my thoughts based on limited experience. Don't take it as gospel. Keep us informed as to what the eventual outcome is, please.
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kyle
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Post by kyle on Mar 19, 2024 17:26:12 GMT -7
TPS/APS sensors have to be adjusted to spec. They use the dealer only Yamaha Diagnostic System to set each to a specified value-range, and then check to be ... Great post and very interesting information! Thanks so much for taking the time to type that up. I'm coming from a 2012 FZ8. I really liked this bike because it had onboard diagnostics, similar to your 2014 FZ09... One of the biggest downsides of the MT-10 for me has been the need for dealer diagnostics to do a lot of tasks. When looking through the service manual, many times it mentions Yamaha Diagnostic Tools... Nonetheless, without software holding my hand, I would be able to diagnose the TPS/APS issues myself. That's really cool that you were able to crack the secret on that though, that's so cool in my opinion. I noticed that by plugging in an OBD2 reader into the bike, I could also read the TPS values, which was really cool for me. The numbers outputted were pretty random, though. You might be able to do that with your MT-10 as well.. Based on the overall customer experience I've gotten with this place so far, I do not think it's out of the question to say something wasn't done correctly. At this time, I do not believe they have checked coil packs... But I really think the issue lies with the installation of the TPS/APS causing this issue. I'm really hoping everything gets sorted out soon... I've already missed out on some perfect riding days here in Northeast NJ.
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kyle
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Post by kyle on Mar 21, 2024 4:50:31 GMT -7
I spoke with Lemon Lawyers yesterday. The process is astonishingly easy and I am extremely upset in myself for being so lazy and not reaching out earlier. I already sent the requested documents back so they can start the process. They still have to review my case to see if a lawsuit can be made anywhere. The only documents they asked for: 1 - The purchase agreement/lease agreement 2 - All repair orders currently in my possession 3 - A copy of my registration 4 - Signed authorization for them to represent me. Welcome to America, where suing someone is as easy as buying a chocolate milk . Just to clarify - I'm only going this route to get my bike fixed faster. I am sure that once Yamaha calls the dealer (and mentions a lawsuit is underway), something will happen. I dropped my bike off at the dealer on March 9th, and I haven't received a single call from the dealer.
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jmm0122
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Post by jmm0122 on Apr 4, 2024 11:16:04 GMT -7
I just had this code pop up on my 2022 a few days ago. I have right at 7500 miles. I was able to unplug the TSP and plug it back in and the CEL went away. I went ahead and ordered a new one for $76 and it should be here in a few days. I have been doing some research and some people say the TSP needs to be calibrated with a special Yamaha computer/ program and some people say it doesn't. After reading the previous forum post, it looks like it does haha. I have also been noticing for the past few months that the throttle on the highway seems a bit "off". Almost like my wrist is randomly blipping the throttle for a split second. I always thought it was just my hands being cold as I don't have heated grips but after getting this CEL light it makes me think that the TPS is intermittently having issues. FWIW my bike has been tuned and the throttle mapping modified. It has been that way for well over a year and probably the last 6500 miles. I just started having weird throttle blips in the past few months. Since it seems like only the dealership can calibrate the TPS I guess I'll be taking it to them which sucks as my bike is not under warranty. Guess I'll get ready for that $150 and hour bill
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kyle
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Post by kyle on Apr 4, 2024 14:56:21 GMT -7
I just had this code pop up on my 2022 a few days ago. I have right at 7500 miles. I was able to unplug the TSP and plug it back in and the CEL went away. I went ahead and ordered a new one for $76 and it should be here in a few days. I have been doing some research and some people say the TSP needs to be calibrated with a special Yamaha computer/ program and some people say it doesn't. After reading the previous forum post, it looks like it does haha. I have also been noticing for the past few months that the throttle on the highway seems a bit "off". Almost like my wrist is randomly blipping the throttle for a split second. I always thought it was just my hands being cold as I don't have heated grips but after getting this CEL light it makes me think that the TPS is intermittently having issues. FWIW my bike has been tuned and the throttle mapping modified. It has been that way for well over a year and probably the last 6500 miles. I just started having weird throttle blips in the past few months. Since it seems like only the dealership can calibrate the TPS I guess I'll be taking it to them which sucks as my bike is not under warranty. Guess I'll get ready for that $150 and hour bill WOW! I'm absolutely intrigued that someone else other than myself has gotten this same code! I wonder if there will be a recall or something. In my case, the dealer replaced two component under warranty. B3L-85885-01-00 B5Y-8291R-00-00 Unfortunately, after those components were installed, something went weird with the throttle response when my bike is cold... I still don't have the bike. I've been dealing with this issue since September 2023. I still don't have the bike in my garage. It's at the dealership currently. I finally called a lemon lawyer, but I should have called much earlier... I wish you the best of luck getting this resolved! I'm really interested to see how far you're able to get on your own! Let us know how it goes! Good luck!
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jmm0122
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Post by jmm0122 on Apr 5, 2024 14:53:38 GMT -7
Got an appointment at the dealership scheduled for April 18th. They said I can bring in the TPS sensor I already purchased from partzilla so long as it is the correct OEM part. I'll let you know how not goes. Good luck with your situation as well.
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kyle
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Post by kyle on Apr 5, 2024 14:56:06 GMT -7
Got an appointment at the dealership scheduled for April 18th. They said I can bring in the TPS sensor I already purchased from partzilla so long as it is the correct OEM part. I'll let you know how not goes. Good luck with your situation as well. Nice! Are you going to install the TPS yourself, and then have the dealership calibrate it? Or will the dealership do both? I'm interested to know how many working hours they will charge. I really hope your experience goes much smoother and faster than mine!
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jmm0122
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Post by jmm0122 on Apr 8, 2024 9:33:41 GMT -7
Got an appointment at the dealership scheduled for April 18th. They said I can bring in the TPS sensor I already purchased from partzilla so long as it is the correct OEM part. I'll let you know how not goes. Good luck with your situation as well. Nice! Are you going to install the TPS yourself, and then have the dealership calibrate it? Or will the dealership do both? I'm interested to know how many working hours they will charge. I really hope your experience goes much smoother and faster than mine! I'm going to have them do both. The bike currently runs now since I unplugged and plugged the TPS back in. CEL is also off but the throttle still feels off. This way I can ride the bike up to the dealership instead of loading it into the back of my truck. Also, the hours wouldn't change much since they would have to pull the few fairings and the fuel tank to remove the throttle bodies to adjust them anyways. They did tell me I can bring the part I already purchased but I would imagine they would be mad if I brought a half torn apart bike to them. Most shops hate working on stuff that customers already tried "fixing themselves". They are a business, so they have to make money. I'm fully expecting at least 3 hours of work though since that is usually how shops work. The service manager did tell me you can technically calibrate it with a voltmeter and a lot of patience, but I want it to be spot on and I don't have the patience for that lol. I'll let you know in a few weeks when I go to pick it back up what the bill was and if it actually fixed my issue.
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travis
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Post by travis on Apr 8, 2024 9:56:46 GMT -7
Nice! Are you going to install the TPS yourself, and then have the dealership calibrate it? Or will the dealership do both? I'm interested to know how many working hours they will charge. I really hope your experience goes much smoother and faster than mine! \The service manager did tell me you can technically calibrate it with a voltmeter and a lot of patience,
Thanks for this bit of info. It's what I suspected.
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jmm0122
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Post by jmm0122 on Apr 10, 2024 14:37:17 GMT -7
So just another update. I went to go change the oil on my bike today, and it won't start. CEL is back on with P2135 and now P0222 TPS circuit low and P0123 TPS circuit high. I was finally able to get it to start by giving it throttle. I'm guessing the TPS is indeed bad and not just out of spec. I used my cheap scanner tool and was able to see that the TPS was showing 14% at idle which is normal but was showing random readings as I was trying to start the bike. I tried reving the bike a bit and the max TPS% I got was 33% but i know the throttle position itself was past that. This might be normal though as I never checked it when the bike wasn't having issues. Guess I'll be throwing it in the back of my truck as I don't trust it to ride anymore as the throttle position and what it's reading are not the same.
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kyle
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Post by kyle on Apr 10, 2024 15:29:36 GMT -7
So just another update. I went to go change the oil on my bike today, and it won't start. CEL is back on with P2135 and now P0222 TPS circuit low and P0123 TPS circuit high. I was finally able to get it to start by giving it throttle. I'm guessing the TPS is indeed bad and not just out of spec. I used my cheap scanner tool and was able to see that the TPS was showing 14% at idle which is normal but was showing random readings as I was trying to start the bike. I tried reving the bike a bit and the max TPS% I got was 33% but i know the throttle position itself was past that. This might be normal though as I never checked it when the bike wasn't having issues. Guess I'll be throwing it in the back of my truck as I don't trust it to ride anymore as the throttle position and what it's reading are not the same. Wow! Thanks for the update. That's crazy. I guess I was lucky to not notice any rideability issues when the CEL was on for my TPS (P2135).... I just noticed issues after the dealer's repair lol.
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Post by willl84 on Apr 12, 2024 5:20:40 GMT -7
So just another update. I went to go change the oil on my bike today, and it won't start. CEL is back on with P2135 and now P0222 TPS circuit low and P0123 TPS circuit high. I was finally able to get it to start by giving it throttle. I'm guessing the TPS is indeed bad and not just out of spec. I used my cheap scanner tool and was able to see that the TPS was showing 14% at idle which is normal but was showing random readings as I was trying to start the bike. I tried reving the bike a bit and the max TPS% I got was 33% but i know the throttle position itself was past that. This might be normal though as I never checked it when the bike wasn't having issues. Guess I'll be throwing it in the back of my truck as I don't trust it to ride anymore as the throttle position and what it's reading are not the same. Well at least there's a code and stuff for the dealer to go with now. Does sound like a faulty TPS. Hopefully they can get it fixed properly for you this time.
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kyle
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Post by kyle on Apr 15, 2024 19:08:44 GMT -7
Just a quick update: I dropped my bike off at the dealer on March 9th, and I haven't received a single call from the dealer since then.
I spoke with Yamaha customer relations (Maybe my 6th time talking to them) on February 12th. They asked me to send them the YouTube video I uploaded demonstrating the video because the Yamaha Tech Line was having trouble playing the video the dealership sent.
I called them again today (March 15th) to ask if they've received it, and I was told that they are no longer allowed to talk to me due to the litigation. Today marks the 7 months ago where the check engine light came on for the first time. The bike has been at the dealership now for more than 150 days (non-consecutively).
I bought a Honda Rebel 300 on Saturday to have something to ride in the meantime. I wish I did this months ago, I missed riding so much.
I'm assuming now that Yamaha has been informed of the lawsuit, I will get my bike back quicker. At least that's what I'm hoping for.
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treedogg
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Post by treedogg on Apr 15, 2024 19:35:31 GMT -7
What an absolute crap show Kyle. I feel for you bro. Hope you can get back on an MT10 soon!
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jmm0122
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Post by jmm0122 on Apr 19, 2024 5:57:21 GMT -7
So, an update on my bike. I'm slightly irritated with the dealership as to how they have handled the problem so far. They called yesterday and told me the bike was ready for pickup. When I arrived, they handed me the new sensor that I asked them to install and said that the tech said the sensor that was on there was good and was within spec and all the tech had to do was reset the check engine light. The problem with this, is that I had already done this at home with my scanner and the code comes back after a few hundred miles. I'm pissed because from the get-go I never asked them to diagnose my issue as I knew this is how they would handle it. I knew they would charge me $150 to turn the check engine light off and say, "If it happens again just bring it back". So, when the check engine light comes back on in a few hundred miles, I let them know I would pay the difference between the $269 to install and calibrate the sensor that the originally quoted me minus the $150 BS fee for them to turn the check engine light off. Maybe dealerships are just used to talking to customers who don't understand how to work on vehicles and don't fully understand how they work. But I have a pretty good understanding of what is wrong and how to fix it but needed them to do the calibration which is all I asked from the beginning. I never said "Fix my bike" I said "Install my part and calibrate it" as the issue is clearly intermittent. And that is the end of my rant. I'll update in a few hundred miles when it comes back on again lol.
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Post by willl84 on Apr 19, 2024 6:05:29 GMT -7
Oh man 🤦
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travis
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Post by travis on Apr 19, 2024 17:37:29 GMT -7
Bruh.
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kyle
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Post by kyle on Apr 20, 2024 9:27:42 GMT -7
So, an update on my bike. I'm slightly irritated with the dealership as to how they have handled the problem so far. They called yesterday and told me the bike was ready for pickup. When I arrived, they handed me the new sensor that I asked them to install and said that the tech said the sensor that was on there was good and was within spec and all the tech had to do was reset the check engine light. The problem with this, is that I had already done this at home with my scanner and the code comes back after a few hundred miles. I'm pissed because from the get-go I never asked them to diagnose my issue as I knew this is how they would handle it. I knew they would charge me $150 to turn the check engine light off and say, "If it happens again just bring it back". So, when the check engine light comes back on in a few hundred miles, I let them know I would pay the difference between the $269 to install and calibrate the sensor that the originally quoted me minus the $150 BS fee for them to turn the check engine light off. Maybe dealerships are just used to talking to customers who don't understand how to work on vehicles and don't fully understand how they work. But I have a pretty good understanding of what is wrong and how to fix it but needed them to do the calibration which is all I asked from the beginning. I never said "Fix my bike" I said "Install my part and calibrate it" as the issue is clearly intermittent. And that is the end of my rant. I'll update in a few hundred miles when it comes back on again lol. Dude!!! My local dealership did the same thing!! Said everything is perfectly within spec and then said that it will never come back on. For reference, my light came back on after around 375 miles after I brought it to the dealership. I really hope this gets sorted out for you as soon as possible and doesn't take 7 months like in my case... riding season is upon us! I just got a call from the dealer today saying my bike is ready for pickup, so hopefully I can update this post later on.
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kyle
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Post by kyle on Apr 21, 2024 18:51:48 GMT -7
Welp - good news everyone! My MT-10 is back in my garage without any issues! I will post a summary later on just documenting my entire experience (for the few that are interested).
In the end, the dealership replaced the entire throttle bodies on the bike.
The check engine light started on September 15th. I first dropped my bike off at the dealership on October 10th, 2023. After being in and out of the dealership, the bike sat on their floor for a total of 165 days. My lawyer officially reached out to Yamaha on April 11th. On April 20th the bike was fixed. Crazy how fast things move when a lawyer is involved.
I'll post more information later on including part numbers replaced, and some of the other fun stuff that I dealt with in the meantime.
EDIT: One thing that has me absolutely devastated throughout this entire process (Shut up I know it's silly) Is the fact someone who is racing against the clock has been taking my bike apart. I already saw some areas of the air scoops which weren't clipped in correctly (clearly rushed) I see some (minor) scratches on my fairings
It's honestly killing me. I did everything I possibly could to keep this bike mint... I worked meticulously to not scratch/break anything (hence, spark plugs took me 10 hours). The clip I broke on the main wiring harness is also such a nightmare for me. I wish there was a way to replace the clip.
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