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Post by papawheelie on Jan 7, 2018 18:22:57 GMT -7
Good information. Thanks for sharing.
That is the same response I’ve received from the techs at my local dealer. It’s noisy, and it’s normal. And then they charged me $125 for one hour of tech time.
So, I trust it. If I don’t like it, I’ll get a louder exhaust.
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Jan 7, 2018 18:27:22 GMT -7
I’m going to get an independants(mechanics) advice before deciding what to do next.
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guywithfz10
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Post by guywithfz10 on Jan 7, 2018 19:38:36 GMT -7
I don't think you should be bothered by the noise. Its naturally just a noisy engine.
You can even hear the ticking in my video and I have a de-cat exhaust.
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Jan 7, 2018 20:41:26 GMT -7
I guess after experiencing a slight tick on my first bike the MT07 (10,500AUD) I expected a better sound on my 20K bike not worse, especially after taking a demo out for a ride prior to purchase and then asking the sales team if these were noisy engines? no problems on the test run and no known issues with strange sounds is what I got from the sales team. So now after purchase everyone wants to play "they are a noisy bike" card. This information was withheld at purchase and that's my gripe. Great all round bike but noisy as hell. Would I have still purchased it had I known? No. Am I just willing to let her go now, hell no, not yet, not without doing whatever I can to reduce and/or eliminate the rattle/ticking. Good information. Thanks for sharing. That is the same response I’ve received from the techs at my local dealer. It’s noisy, and it’s normal. And then they charged me $125 for one hour of tech time. So, I trust it. If I don’t like it, I’ll get a louder exhaust. I've held off 12 months with the de-cat, link pipe and akro for the exact reason in your video. I don't want to throw another 2-3000 AUD at this bike if I can still hear it beyond the de-cat. Thanks for sharing that info guywithfz10 BTW: I couldn't care less about the ticking at idle it's the noise this thing makes when riding it that's the issue. |
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superspirit
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Post by superspirit on Jan 8, 2018 6:40:50 GMT -7
I have been keeping up with this thread since it started, It's quite evident you will never be happy with this machine. I highly suggest you start looking for your next machine. after 46 years of riding one thing is for sure no machine is totally silent.
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mrcdharwood
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Post by mrcdharwood on Jan 8, 2018 7:53:51 GMT -7
Mine sounds exactly the same. And it sounds the same as a colleagues. I genuinely believe it's the make up of the engine and you have nothing to worry about.
Here's mine. The smoking is my ACF burning off (winter/engine protection)
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av8er
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Post by av8er on Jan 8, 2018 10:46:35 GMT -7
I’m going to get an independants(mechanics) advice before deciding what to do next. I have followed this tread a bit and not sure if you ever tried what Stoltecmoto offered a few pages back. And that's the wheel alignment. Unfortunately a lot of historical data went away from the old forum but just because the Yamaha mechanics and yourself have adjusted the chain and alignment doesn't mean its right. Some of us with the earlier bikes found out that the alignment marks are not a good tool to judge the wheel being straight. Guys were complaining that while riding on a flat straight road with cruise, taking hands off the bars resulted in the bike pulling one way or the other.(mostly to the right) The ticks marks could be set perfect but wheel was not straight. If this was checked by laser or some other alignment tool then disregard. If not, try the hands off experiment and if pulling then, there likely is your problem. As stated by Stoltec, this would in fact wear your chain, grind your trans, and most other noises complaining about. My marks were off almost 3/4 of a tick mark and after a proper alignment, my bike tracked straight and no noise issues beyond what I would call normal for this crossplane engine. I had a 09 R1, and currently have a 15 R1 and the FZ10. The 09 did receive a replacement CCT due to recall and did make some noise prior to the change, but fine afterwards. Give a shot, what do you have to lose? In my past life, if I heard noises like heard from your video, I would have considered ejecting. |
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Jan 8, 2018 13:07:45 GMT -7
I have been keeping up with this thread since it started, It's quite evident you will never be happy with this machine. I highly suggest you start looking for your next machine. after 46 years of riding one thing is for sure no machine is totally silent. I'm not giving up on this ride just yet. No machine is totally silent, agreed but the video I've captured proves something is at times not running right. All I'm trying to achieve is the best outcome for a problem that's been with me since purchase that I'm not hearing on other tens. Again, I'm not fussed about the ticking at idle, only if that's the cause for noise I get when riding. I generally don't give up trying until I've exhausted all avenues. When she's running right she's perfect. And please remember that even though I've re-iterated it to yamaha mechanics (chain slack specs 2-3cm) every time I go for a chain tighten they still set it to around 5cm's of slack. So on-top of everything else for the better part of 14 months I've been riding unnecessarily with additional drive chain noise\rattle. |
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Jan 8, 2018 13:10:31 GMT -7
Mine sounds exactly the same. And it sounds the same as a colleagues. I genuinely believe it's the make up of the engine and you have nothing to worry about. Here's mine. The smoking is my ACF burning off (winter/engine protection) Thanks for the info. Took mine to a friend/race mechanic(for cars). He took the bike for a spin and doesn't like what he hears. Is of the opinion something's not right. |
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Jan 8, 2018 13:15:53 GMT -7
I’m going to get an independants(mechanics) advice before deciding what to do next. I have followed this tread a bit and not sure if you ever tried what Stoltecmoto offered a few pages back. And that's the wheel alignment. Unfortunately a lot of historical data went away from the old forum but just because the Yamaha mechanics and yourself have adjusted the chain and alignment doesn't mean its right. Some of us with the earlier bikes found out that the alignment marks are not a good tool to judge the wheel being straight. Guys were complaining that while riding on a flat straight road with cruise, taking hands off the bars resulted in the bike pulling one way or the other.(mostly to the right) The ticks marks could be set perfect but wheel was not straight. If this was checked by laser or some other alignment tool then disregard. If not, try the hands off experiment and if pulling then, there likely is your problem. As stated by Stoltec, this would in fact wear your chain, grind your trans, and most other noises complaining about. My marks were off almost 3/4 of a tick mark and after a proper alignment, my bike tracked straight and no noise issues beyond what I would call normal for this crossplane engine. I had a 09 R1, and currently have a 15 R1 and the FZ10. The 09 did receive a replacement CCT due to recall and did make some noise prior to the change, but fine afterwards. Give a shot, what do you have to lose? In my past life, if I heard noises like heard from your video, I would have considered ejecting. I haven't yet but i'l definitely give it a shot. Thanks for re-iterating this.... This makes sense. Logical and possible. Uneven wear on chain - Tick Trans whining - Tick Rattling - Tick Bike chains only ever been nipped up by Yamaha dealers. As it stands now(just checked) there is a difference of 1/4 going off the marks. Yamaha re-tightened the new chain last week. Not sure the difference a quarter makes on a properly aligned bike but as soon as the rain lifts I'l give the hands of experiment a shot. |
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Jan 9, 2018 17:43:19 GMT -7
I’m going to get an independants(mechanics) advice before deciding what to do next. I have followed this tread a bit and not sure if you ever tried what Stoltecmoto offered a few pages back. And that's the wheel alignment. Unfortunately a lot of historical data went away from the old forum but just because the Yamaha mechanics and yourself have adjusted the chain and alignment doesn't mean its right. Some of us with the earlier bikes found out that the alignment marks are not a good tool to judge the wheel being straight. Guys were complaining that while riding on a flat straight road with cruise, taking hands off the bars resulted in the bike pulling one way or the other.(mostly to the right) The ticks marks could be set perfect but wheel was not straight. If this was checked by laser or some other alignment tool then disregard. If not, try the hands off experiment and if pulling then, there likely is your problem. As stated by Stoltec, this would in fact wear your chain, grind your trans, and most other noises complaining about. My marks were off almost 3/4 of a tick mark and after a proper alignment, my bike tracked straight and no noise issues beyond what I would call normal for this crossplane engine. I had a 09 R1, and currently have a 15 R1 and the FZ10. The 09 did receive a replacement CCT due to recall and did make some noise prior to the change, but fine afterwards. Give a shot, what do you have to lose? In my past life, if I heard noises like heard from your video, I would have considered ejecting. To be honest the hands off experiment was difficult. It felt like the bike wanted to go right and my right knee/thigh was more often than not pressing hard left against the fuel tank. I couldn't work out if it was just me and my balance or the roads and lack of a good straight anywhere near home. So I ran this test you reminded me of (From Stoltecmoto)....to the best of my ability; www.motorcyclistonline.com/how-to/how-to-check-front-and-rear-motorcycle-wheel-alignment-mc-garage-tech-tipsAnd I gotta say I can't fault the alignment. Be lucky if there is even 2mm difference in it. Yesterday I finally got around to taking the bike into an independent motorcycle mechanic. He took it for a spin and agreed the whining in all gears was very noticeable, especially loud in first. He heard the rattle kick in around 5000rpm's and thinks it may be coming from the exup valve and/or cat. When tapping the exhaust forks with a mallet the exup valve at the other end along with the cat converter would make a vibrating kind of noise. Though that doesn't explain why it sounds like it's coming from the front end? Could be sound transferal....anyways he feels a link pipe and elimination of the cat would resolve the issue. He was baffled as to why Yamaha changed the drive chain only and not the sprockets? and was adamant that these dealerships want you to change both the chain and sprockets at the same time, never one without the other. Questioned then why they only did the chain? Thanks for all the info and suggestions provided so far, appreciate it. |
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av8er
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Post by av8er on Jan 10, 2018 4:44:13 GMT -7
That is interesting. The link you suggested for the alignment I had not heard of. I was referring to the laser tool that Stotecmoto had posted earlier in this tread. I guess whatever works properly can be used but if your bike is still pulling, find it hard to believe that its aligned. It can be difficult to find a fairly flat road since most are designed for water runoff. We have a four lane here that slants in both directions and I (with no traffic) will get in the middle where it seems to be almost flat and then at about 50mph turn the cruise on to check. Once satisfied its tracking straight I get on both sides to see if it pulls in both directions slightly as it should. Any crosswind will negate the check too.
As far as the exup valve rattling, I can see how that could also make a metallic nuisance noise. Especially at different RPM's. I have no idea what RPM the valve begins to open or when its fully opened. I have the Graves EVR exhaust which has a much bigger and better valve made by Chuck and I don't have that issue at all. Most guys here have eliminated the exup altogether so again no comparison.
I hope you get it sorted out whatever the cause and post it here for others that might have the same issue in the future. Best of luck.
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Post by stoltecmoto on Jan 10, 2018 5:08:23 GMT -7
Before spending the money on a link pipe (and more), try wiring the EXUP open. You'll need to disconnect the cables from the valve, but you can leave them in place. Use some safety wire or whatever you have on hand to wire it open. If that kills the sound, you have your answer. If not, you saved yourself time and money. I'd be surprised if that's the problem, but videos are hard to judge. While you're at it, use a large rag to block the muffler outlet while running. If you have any exhaust leaks, which can be ticky sometimes, this will draw immediate attention to them.
As far as the alignment, a 2 mm difference from front to rear is huge. As mentioned above, if it still isn't tracking straight, the alignment is out. Of course, this won't have an affect over the sound you hear at 5K RPM...since that occurs when the bike is stationary. That noise is most engine related...
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Jan 11, 2018 15:32:12 GMT -7
![]() As per last weeks chain tighten by Yamaha...  Another couple of runs at hands off test in cruise control and yep she's definitely only ever pulling right. Need to sway my body on an angle to the left side of my bike while tucking right knee hard up against tank to try and keep her going straight. This time better roads and clearer result. Soon as I let go she goes right no matter the road I'm on. Based on those marks (best I could capture in a pic) should she be aligned and expected to go straight.... |
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av8er
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Post by av8er on Jan 11, 2018 16:37:17 GMT -7
![]() As per last weeks chain tighten by Yamaha... Another couple of runs at hands off test in cruise control and yep she's definitely only ever pulling right. Need to sway my body on an angle to the left side of my bike while tucking right knee hard up against tank to try and keep her going straight. This time better roads and clearer result. Soon as I let go she goes right no matter the road I'm on. Based on those marks (best I could capture in a pic) should she be aligned and expected to go straight.... That's kinda hard to tell from your pics. I know you said you got a new chain but have you changed the spockets too? The reason I ask is because my bike lines up on the middle 5 marks and yours, I can see it lined up on the end of the second 2 marks on one side and on the other side can only see the first of the two marks. Sooo, I would say its not aligned the same on each side. That being said, the marks on several bikes reported on the old forum found that they do not line the wheel straight when using the marks to align. Those and mine were found to NOT be a good reference to set. I don't know what they used at the shop for you but doubt that they used the laser. And the fact that it pulls right confirms it not properly aligned. |
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Jan 11, 2018 17:44:22 GMT -7
![]() As per last weeks chain tighten by Yamaha... Another couple of runs at hands off test in cruise control and yep she's definitely only ever pulling right. Need to sway my body on an angle to the left side of my bike while tucking right knee hard up against tank to try and keep her going straight. This time better roads and clearer result. Soon as I let go she goes right no matter the road I'm on. Based on those marks (best I could capture in a pic) should she be aligned and expected to go straight.... That's kinda hard to tell from your pics. I know you said you got a new chain but have you changed the spockets too? The reason I ask is because my bike lines up on the middle 5 marks and yours, I can see it lined up on the end of the second 2 marks on one side and on the other side can only see the first of the two marks. Sooo, I would say its not aligned the same on each side. That being said, the marks on several bikes reported on the old forum found that they do not line the wheel straight when using the marks to align. Those and mine were found to NOT be a good reference to set. I don't know what they used at the shop for you but doubt that they used the laser. And the fact that it pulls right confirms it not properly aligned. Hard to get a good shot. The block sticks out on the right side but sits in on the inside on the left channel. Yep, in person the left side sits right on the mark but on the right its directly after it. Difference of approximately 1-1.5mm. They just used guide marks to align it at the shop. Assuming it's done right/better by yama's mechanics is somewhat ignorant. Lesson learned. They replaced the chain with a new one but did not do the sprockets (at least that's what they told me/show on the invoice)- done under warranty. O'rings were splitting only on the inner side of my original chain. |
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av8er
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Post by av8er on Jan 11, 2018 18:22:17 GMT -7
Hard to get a good shot. The block sticks out on the right side but sits in on the inside on the left channel. Yep, in person the left side sits right on the mark but on the right its directly after it. Difference of approximately 1-1.5mm. They just used guide marks to align it at the shop. Assuming it's done right/better by yama's mechanics is somewhat ignorant. Lesson learned. They replaced the chain with a new one but did not do the sprockets (at least that's what they told me/show on the invoice)- done under warranty. O'rings were splitting only on the inner side of my original chain. I had to take your picture down and compare to my bike. Now I understand why it was confusing to me. Your picture is cutoff and doesn’t show the remaining marks. Just for comparison, my chain is adjusted on the same mark that yours is on the picture that shows the two marks. Believe it or not, the small amount that it’s off from one side to the other is enough for the wheel to be out of line as far as tracking straight. Assuming that your guide marks are more accurate than mine, I would adjust them together. Don’t totally loosen your wheel nut but just enough to move it with the locking bolts/nuts. It calls for a 32 mm but a standard 1 1/4 works fine. If it still pulls to the right, then your guide marks could be off as well as some others have complained. Mine was off almost 3/4 of a mark when lasered. I don’t believe that is the cause of your noise but may help it track straight. Stoltecs offer of disconnecting the exp cables and wiring your exup open might cure that. Not that hard to do. I suspect you can find a how to with a search on this forum. |
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Post by stoltecmoto on Jan 12, 2018 4:31:17 GMT -7
Another point to consider when adjusting your chain:
Check the chain alignment after you torque the axle, too! There are a few tolerance stacks in the assembly that cause the swingarm to distort when everything is tightened down. Don't assume that the alignment is still true after it's buttoned up. It takes a little bit of finesse and repetition to get things right the first time. Once you have it set, just be meticulous with the chain block adjusters in the future...turn each one the EXACT same amount and you'll never need to revisit.
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Jan 12, 2018 13:51:23 GMT -7
Yesterday a good mate of mine with years of mechanical experience came over and we adjusted the chain to be perfectly aligned with guide marks.
Bike still pulled right.
Then we intentionally misaligned the bike by 1/2 a mark and I took it for a test. Drive chain noise got a lot worse and became noticeable at lower rpm' s.
The best alignment for troubling noises on my bike is definitely as close to the alignment marks as possible. But bike continues to pull right.
Stoltecmoto is correct, when tightening up movement does indeed occur. We noticed this and checked marks before and after until desired result was achieved.
Could the Bike be pulling right simply because there is more weight on the right side of the bike...?
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av8er
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Post by av8er on Jan 12, 2018 20:25:00 GMT -7
Yesterday a good mate of mine with years of mechanical experience came over and we adjusted the chain to be perfectly aligned with guide marks. Bike still pulled right. Then we intentionally misaligned the bike by 1/2 a mark and I took it for a test. Drive chain noise got a lot worse and became noticeable at lower rpm' s. The best alignment for troubling noises on my bike is definitely as close to the alignment marks as possible. But bike continues to pull right. Stoltecmoto is correct, when tightening up movement does indeed occur. We noticed this and checked marks before and after until desired result was achieved. Could the Bike be pulling right simply because there is more weight on the right side of the bike...? Yes it does change a bit when tightening. That’s why I mentioned loosening just enough to be able to adjust with the adjusting bolts. I’m surprised that you didn’t try going a half of mark the other way. Sounds like it got worse when you did try the half mark out which would indicate to me that you going farther out of alignment. Perhaps the other way is the direction you need to go. In answer to your question, the bike itself is very well balanced but if your body is sitting more one side on the seat, sure it would try to turn. But if your balanced well on a straight flat road with no crosswind, the physics of the bike should allow it to track straight if the wheels are aligned. Also how many miles on your tires? The front in particular, if crowned a bit (egg shaped)from wear will really want to turn harder once entering a turn. I do a lot of canyon carving and my front wears much more then my rear. I wish you lived closer as I am curious as to your issues. But the fact that your able to ride now means you must be in a warmer climate. Jealous. |
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