Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Nov 20, 2017 3:23:01 GMT -7
Stoltec moto: I’m curious...when you say "tech inspection", do you mean pre-track inspection, or something different? And, it fails the tech inspection because the inspector determines that 25 mm is too tight? cumquot: I've also been struggling to settle on the best chain tension during my first 1,000 miles on the FZ-10. When adjusted according to the owner's manual, it "feels" pretty dang tight, especially if I understand the diagram correctly, that it should measure 20 - 30mm from the TOP of the chain when pushed up, to the BOTTOM of the chain when pushed down (versus the middle of the chain in each position). However, when I loosen it up a bit, to a tension that feels right to me, it is embarrassingly noisy. It is most noticeable when I don’t have much load on the chain (cruising at a steady speed) and I have a barrier of some sort (concrete barrier, car, etc) on my immediate left, causing the chain noise to reflect back to me. It makes me feel better knowing that it’s not just me. Haha. Thank you. Im quite sure you are not reading that correctly. The slack is the movement distance up and down. Not from the top of the chain to the bottom of the chain. Pick a point on the chain and measure how far that point moves total It definitely is a point of contention. I've shown this diagram to varying mechs and it has raised some eyebrows... This is how this diagram was explained to me; 1. press down and measure bottom of chain. 2. Press up measure top of chain The distance between the two marks needs to be within the specified range. it would be nice to know definitively ..... which is the correct method, as above or pick a point. |
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jjsc6
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Post by jjsc6 on Nov 20, 2017 5:14:30 GMT -7
As the saying goes, I'm old and have forgotten more than most people know. Maybe I really have forgotten, or maybe I'm just stupid. But I'd be awfully surprised if I'm wrong. But I do agree that the diagram is poorly written. As has been stated elsewhere on this thread, too loose is better than too tight. I'd be very careful about using what you are seeing as the proper way, that would have extremely little slack. Let's hope we can get to the bottom of this.
I just googled how to adjust chains and found a how-to on two very well know magazine web sites. Neither one of them addressed the issue at had. They just said "measure the slack". But here is what got me. One of them casually said put the bike on the side stand or the centerstand. That is BAD advice. The manuals always specify one or the other, and everyone I've seen says the side stand. I promise they will give very different results. There is always much more slack on the centerstand (or an axle stand like used when there is no centerstand).
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Post by papawheelie on Nov 20, 2017 11:25:00 GMT -7
Yes, it would be nice to know what Yamaha actually intended. Because the difference is significant between those two possible solutions. I’m looking at my chain right now, and the difference between measuring the top of the chain when pressed up and the bottom of the chain when pressed down *OR* using the same spot (eg. center), is a difference of about 1/2 inch (13 mm), or about 50% of the overall recommended slack!
When I first read the owner’s manual, it raised the question for me, prompting me to search this site and others for the answer. It was then, that I discovered that I wasn’t the only person asking the question.
Anyway, if I measure my chain center-to-center right now, it measures about 25 mm (1 inch) of slack. It seems noisy to me, but maybe I just need to get used to it. It is the first chain-drive street bike I’ve owned. I am used to belt-drive which is very quiet by comparison.
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fastback89
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Post by fastback89 on Nov 20, 2017 19:10:29 GMT -7
I think you've got it right. You want about an inch of slack center to center. I wouldn't go to much tighter than that.
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Nov 21, 2017 2:42:51 GMT -7
And dont forget how much of a difference varying force adds to the measurement.
My mt-07 manual specified a downward force of 1.5 kgf where the MT-10 manual does not.
When just doing it by hand I'd always get a different measurement. Its all apples n oranges without static forces.
And so without knowing you might be pushing down or pulling up too much.
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Post by papawheelie on Nov 21, 2017 5:28:02 GMT -7
And dont forget how much of a difference varying force adds to the measurement. My mt-07 manual specified a downward force of 1.5 kgf where the MT-10 manual does not. When just doing it by hand I'd always get a different measurement. Its all apples n oranges without static forces. And so without knowing you might be pushing down or pulling up too much. Yes, I was also looking for that same information in the manual on day-1, then went to the forums, and learned that also was a question mark in owners' minds. My Road Star Warrior manual specifically stated to check drive belt tension using 4.5 kgf (10 lbf) of downward force. So, I guess there are a few details here where we’re left to just figure out what works, through some trial and error, which does work just fine, aside from questions. |
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Post by evitzee on Nov 21, 2017 6:46:05 GMT -7
The SERVICE MANUAL gives the slack measurements on center stand and side stand. Page 3-19. Take your pick. I find center stand method is much easier and precise. Don't over think it.
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wonger
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Post by wonger on Nov 21, 2017 10:35:53 GMT -7
It's also from the same point at both the bottom point of measure and the top point of measure to find the slack in the chain. Not the slack in the chain minus the width of the chain links.
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Nov 21, 2017 17:44:24 GMT -7
Ok Yamaha tech specialists have looked at the bike.
They aren’t exactly sure but will start by changing the tensioner.
Part won’t come in till a couple weeks time. If not the tensioner they will look deeper into it.
So it’s a good result for me. Finally they have accepted there is a problem!
I’ll report back on the outcome once the new one gets installed.
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Post by papawheelie on Nov 21, 2017 20:23:34 GMT -7
A couple weeks?!? Hopefully this is not riding season where you live. Anyway, glad they’re giving you some attention. Will be anxious to hear the outcome.
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Nov 21, 2017 22:59:20 GMT -7
A couple weeks?!? Hopefully this is not riding season where you live. Anyway, glad they’re giving you some attention. Will be anxious to hear the outcome. I've got the bike back now...so will continue to use it until part comes in. It's riding season all year round in Sydney but right now we're heading into summer so def don't want to be without it.... I'l keep you posted. As to why they set the slack on my bike to a sloppy 4.5cm? I'm pretty sure the mechanics(all Ive experienced in my time anyway) just set it to whatever they think works best. Right or wrong? not even yamaha's dealerships in Sydney follow their own specs. |
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Nov 24, 2017 12:39:01 GMT -7
Yesterday I was cleaning and lubing the chain when I noticed some rubber sticking out(inner side of chain only). There are 4 different links that I've found. The same thing happened on my MT-07 and the chain was replaced under warranty. It started at 3-5 O-Rings and continued to get worse with riding. Toward the end, before getting it replaced there were over 30 of these splits. Not sure why this has happened again but the one true constant is the cam tensioner. My MT-10's getting a new tensioner and my MT-07 also had its cam tensioner replaced, shortly after I found these splits in the O-Rings on that bike as well. I use Motul Chain cleaner and Motul Factory chain lube and clean chains every 800km with a soft cloth. I lube every couple of hundred. Could tbese splits be the result of a bad tensioner, all this grinding I'm getng might suggest it is? 
Ps. Same as my MT-07, not a single split O-Ring on the outer side of the chain only on the inner.... |
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sam07
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Post by sam07 on Nov 25, 2017 6:22:35 GMT -7
My chain measured 1 inch of deflection on the side stand. Do you notice a loud whining noise while riding?
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sam07
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Post by sam07 on Nov 25, 2017 6:30:14 GMT -7
Kinda sounds like this....
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Nov 25, 2017 12:27:04 GMT -7
My chain measured 1 inch of deflection on the side stand. Do you notice a loud whining noise while riding? Yes I do... The whining started on my bike at around 6,000km on the odo. It would only happen sometimes when it started but now at 10,000km on the odo, all the time? I mentioned it to the service manager when I dropped it off last week but I did not receive any feedback on this from them... Sam07, Why do you ask? |
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sam07
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Post by sam07 on Nov 25, 2017 17:34:01 GMT -7
My chain measured 1 inch of deflection on the side stand. Do you notice a loud whining noise while riding? Yes I do... The whining started on my bike at around 6,000km on the odo. It would only happen sometimes when it started but now at 10,000km on the odo, all the time? I mentioned it to the service manager when I dropped it off last week but I did not receive any feedback on this from them... Sam07, Why do you ask? There’s a lot of people randomly complaining but no clear solutions. I didn’t notice the whine when the bike was new and chain adjusted at 600 miles. Now with 4K miles, she whines. Im very religious about cleaning and lubing living in FL with tons of rain and sand all year long. I’m going to loosen my chain a tad and see if it effects anything. Maybe after breakin, the chain should be on the loose side. I wonder if the R1 guys have the same concern? |
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Post by clayton on Nov 25, 2017 18:56:14 GMT -7
Sounds like gear whine in transmission
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Nov 26, 2017 4:21:08 GMT -7
Yes I do... The whining started on my bike at around 6,000km on the odo. It would only happen sometimes when it started but now at 10,000km on the odo, all the time? I mentioned it to the service manager when I dropped it off last week but I did not receive any feedback on this from them... Sam07, Why do you ask? There’s a lot of people randomly complaining but no clear solutions. I didn’t notice the whine when the bike was new and chain adjusted at 600 miles. Now with 4K miles, she whines. Im very religious about cleaning and lubing living in FL with tons of rain and sand all year long. I’m going to loosen my chain a tad and see if it effects anything. Maybe after breakin, the chain should be on the loose side. I wonder if the R1 guys have the same concern? Chain slacks made no difference to the whine on mine... |
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sam07
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Post by sam07 on Nov 26, 2017 5:00:59 GMT -7
Sounds like gear whine in transmission Exactly. Usually when a chain is too tight, the trans will whine. If loosening the chain doesn’t solve anything then it’s internal. |
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Nov 26, 2017 8:49:05 GMT -7
Sounds like gear whine in transmission Exactly. Usually when a chain is too tight, the trans will whine. If loosening the chain doesn’t solve anything then it’s internal. Can an overly tight chain cause the whining problem and make it permanent? My chains only ever been nipped up by yam dealership themselves. Do all 10's whine like this eventually? Or are you saying only some are doing it? |
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