doctorzoidberg
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Registered: Jul 14, 2017 16:48:03 GMT -7
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Post by doctorzoidberg on Jul 16, 2017 12:35:52 GMT -7
Hi there, I just joined this forum, and on this coming Thursday I will be picking up my brand-new FZ-10 from my local dealership. My wife has an FZ-07, which I also enjoy riding, that she bought new, and I broke in her engine as per the Motoman method you recommend, and it runs excellent so far. I agree that babying the engine during break-in is exactly the wrong thing to do if you want the best performance and life out of the engine. You recommend not letting the engine warm up before taking off, and Motoman stresses the opposite, that you really, really need to let the engine warm up before riding it hard during break-in. So, I'm wondering, can you elaborate on why you think letting the engine warm up is a bad idea? Thanks. Its honestly just my opinion for the first 20 mile break in. I will go back and reword that. but my opinion is that in the first 20 miles, letting it idle for more than a minute before taking off is bad for the rings, that have not fully seated yet. Now, factories are now dyno running these engines before shipping them out to the dealers. This is what I have heard, so they have started the process for us. But I believe that the first 20 mile sring seating procedure is still important. What you're saying makes more sense to me, actually. It's just that in his write-up, Motoman seems so adamant about ensuring the engine is fully warmed up before revving it hard, that I wanted to ask about it. Thanks for your input, and cheers.
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Post by clayton on Mar 14, 2018 6:19:02 GMT -7
Since Yamaha is recommending full synthetic when doing oil change, did Yamaha fill motor with full synthetic at the factory?
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Post by evitzee on Mar 14, 2018 7:36:41 GMT -7
Since Yamaha is recommending full synthetic when doing oil change, did Yamaha fill motor with full synthetic at the factory? Yes, Yamalube full synthetic, 15W50
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miglo
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Registered: Jun 17, 2017 14:04:21 GMT -7
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Post by miglo on Mar 14, 2018 13:29:09 GMT -7
Since Yamaha is recommending full synthetic when doing oil change, did Yamaha fill motor with full synthetic at the factory? Yes, Yamalube full synthetic, 15W50 That is not correct...I don’t remember the exact name of it but there is a type of break-in oil put in from the factory and even after that I personally would not put Full Synthetic in till after the 4K mark, but that’s just from my experience.
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Post by evitzee on Mar 14, 2018 14:19:33 GMT -7
Yes, Yamalube full synthetic, 15W50 That is not correct...I don’t remember the exact name of it but there is a type of break-in oil put in from the factory and even after that I personally would not put Full Synthetic in till after the 4K mark, but that’s just from my experience. Haven't heard that about a break-in oil from the mothership but that doesn't mean you aren't correct. All the Service and Owner's manuals say is change it at 600 miles (along with the filter) and then every 4000 miles (filter every 8000 miles), and to use synthetic oil. To further confuse things the European durations are oil every 6000 miles (filter every 12000 miles).
Two subjects will always generate a million opinions......oil threads and gasoline threads.
Personally I change the oil and filter every 3,000 miles and have never had any issues.
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Post by clayton on Mar 14, 2018 16:13:23 GMT -7
So y’all think it would be ok to change my oil with 50-100 miles on it to rotella t6 synthetic?
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Post by achrista on Mar 14, 2018 17:23:12 GMT -7
Some people recommend an immediate change to get rid of any shavings or other undesirable particulate. I just follow the recommended interval in case there are factory additives they use when they set it up.
I know t6 is jaso certified and i ran it on my sv650 just fine. Someone told me it can sludge up the oil pan but i think that's a myth.
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Post by evitzee on Mar 14, 2018 18:17:15 GMT -7
So y’all think it would be ok to change my oil with 50-100 miles on it to rotella t6 synthetic? It won't hurt it. I used T6 for years in my bikes with absolutely no issues, and ran two oil changes on the FZ-10 with T6. But it is a 5W-40 oil and Yamalube synthetic is a 15W-50. Significant difference? Probably not. But I had to do a quickie oil filter swap a couple of months ago because of a recalled K&N filter and I went with the Yamaha filter and Yamalube 15W-50 oil. Can I tell any difference? No. But high ambient temperatures in TX just pushed me to the higher recommended weight. The Yamaha product is more expensive than the $22 jug at Walmart, but I didn't want to chance problems with a high performance engine. I'll probably stay with the Yamaha oil but I have three good K&N filters so I'll go back to using them at the next change.
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dertymt
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Registered: Apr 26, 2018 18:33:37 GMT -7
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Post by dertymt on Aug 17, 2018 23:37:12 GMT -7
From what I've seen and heard, the popular opinion is to break them in how you intended to ride them. My mt10 I bought brand new and for the first 300 to 400 kms I just rode around town normally without letting it rev too high or lug too low. Then I took it to 2 track days in a row and beat the hell out of it. Seems to have worked very well and the bike isn't drinking oil or leaking anywhere. Compression is good and stock power was 154hp and 80 foot pounds of torque at the rear wheel. So that method seems to have worked for me.
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Deleted
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Registered: Nov 21, 2024 4:21:33 GMT -7
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 13:18:14 GMT -7
I just follow the recommended interval in case there are factory additives they use when they set it up. I know t6 is jaso certified and i ran it on my sv650 just fine. Someone told me it can sludge up the oil pan but i think that's a myth. I'm going to wait as close to the 600-mile too I'm at 97 now), and go full synthetic after that. And that's the reason for my post. I was going to go with T6, like many of you have done, but after my research, won't use it anymore. And no, sludge is not really an issue. What is, is the lack of proper additives to counteract the effect the tranny has on the oil. And it makes perfect sense. No diesel oil is going to have them, even when JASO-MA1/2 certified (which is required for proper wet clutch operation). The price was mighty attractive, but not willing to sacrifice protection for my bike for a few bucks. I'm also a believer of minimizing cold start lack of lubrication, which is minimized using thinner 'cold' oil (the first number), but without sacrificing hot viscosity, which is even more important. So happy to have found an oil that should have the best of all worlds in this: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008MISDII/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1 . Was going to use this one after deciding not to use the Rotella: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0050J5JB6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A1TFBK3C7LO58P&psc=1, but after a second search, found the 5/40 Castrol. It's the only 5/40 motorcycle full synthetic oil I found, so will go with that one and see how it runs. It's actually a bit cheaper per liter than the BelRay, so great news. And cheaper than any of the Walmart 10/40 motorcycle-specific options, so not bad. To be honest, any JASO MA1/2 oil should be fine, but with 2 engine failures already, prefer to give my new baby only the best .
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exuptoy
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Post by exuptoy on Oct 31, 2018 14:11:41 GMT -7
Sorry but I disagree with the short break in period mentioned a few times above. The manual clearly states that no prolonged revs above 5900 (a bit specific don't you think) for the first 1000km then no prolonged revs higher than 7100 for the next 600k's. They're not saying don't rev it but notice the wording.....no prolonged revs above. So dipping in and out of these areas is not gonna give longer term issues. The mech at my local Yamaha dealer I have known for over 20 years and he has worked at all the main dealers in my locality (Honda, Yam, Kawa, Suzuki) and I would trust his word over someones opinion on a forum. I was 'advised' in the dealership that if I could, try and keep the revs below 4k for the first 50 miles, then 5k till 100 miles then follow the break in procedure in the manual. He says the guys can feel when they do the 600 mile service if a bike has been run in to the book but the feel of how smooth and tight the bike still is at 600m, and I have no reason to doubt him. I was also advised to let the 'box' bed in before using the QS so all the gear edges had been seated against its opposing gear and allowed to settle in together. Also using the cruise kinda goes against the letting it sit at a specific revs for long periods.
Also back when the Gixer 750 was new, a UK mag (performance bikes) purchased 2 brand new bikes and ran one in to the letter and the other was thrashed from new. The thrashed bike was making 10 bhp more in the early days but the engine had gone by 20k.
Mine will be run in as per my dealer recommendations.
Just saying!
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superspirit
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Post by superspirit on Nov 1, 2018 7:09:22 GMT -7
Sorry but I disagree with the short break in period mentioned a few times above. The manual clearly states that no prolonged revs above 5900 (a bit specific don't you think) for the first 1000km then no prolonged revs higher than 7100 for the next 600k's. They're not saying don't rev it but notice the wording.....no prolonged revs above. So dipping in and out of these areas is not gonna give longer term issues. The mech at my local Yamaha dealer I have known for over 20 years and he has worked at all the main dealers in my locality (Honda, Yam, Kawa, Suzuki) and I would trust his word over someones opinion on a forum. I was 'advised' in the dealership that if I could, try and keep the revs below 4k for the first 50 miles, then 5k till 100 miles then follow the break in procedure in the manual. He says the guys can feel when they do the 600 mile service if a bike has been run in to the book but the feel of how smooth and tight the bike still is at 600m, and I have no reason to doubt him. I was also advised to let the 'box' bed in before using the QS so all the gear edges had been seated against its opposing gear and allowed to settle in together. Also using the cruise kinda goes against the letting it sit at a specific revs for long periods. Also back when the Gixer 750 was new, a UK mag (performance bikes) purchased 2 brand new bikes and ran one in to the letter and the other was thrashed from new. The thrashed bike was making 10 bhp more in the early days but the engine had gone by 20k. Mine will be run in as per my dealer recommendations. Just saying! I use the Castrol power 1 in 10w50 great oil IMO
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Post by evitzee on Nov 1, 2018 10:59:35 GMT -7
There are many theories about how to break in a motorcycle or car/truck engine but why not just follow the manufacturer's recommendations, it's their design and it's their reputation and nameplate on the vehicle. I've always done what they recommend and have never had any engine problems during the life of the product.
Same is true for oil, it seems everybody has a theory and plan as to why a different oil than spec'd by the maker should be used. For the MT-10 Yamaha recommends a full synthetic oil in either 10W-40 or 15W-50 weight, yet others decide to use a different weight to suit their idea as to what is best for them. I don't think using a 5W-40 oil is going to hurt anything but I don't think it is giving any better protection than a 10W- or 15W- oil. I was looking at my prior FZ1 owner's manual and they had a little chart that showed the recommended ambient temperature range for Yamalube 15W-50 as 30 F --> 120 F, and Yamalube 10W-40 as 10 F --> 110 F. Based on this Yamalube full synthetic 15W-50 would be the right weight for the type of use the MT-10 is likely to see. Most of us ride in temps above 60 F so their 15W-50 oil is fine for cold start up and it protects up to 120 F ambient which is more important. When you are sitting in slow traffic, with both radiator fans spinning away, and your coolant temperature hitting 210-215 F I want that 50 weight oil in the engine. I think if anyone is gun shy about the couple of engine failures that have been reported the safest fallback would be to stick with what Yamaha recommends. You don't have to use their brand of oil but I'd be using the weights they specify. KISS.
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superspirit
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Post by superspirit on Nov 1, 2018 11:36:29 GMT -7
By going with a 10w50 I am sticking to the manufacturers recommendation. I see temps here from -20 to +115. I have ridden in weather as cold as 20. With 10w50 I'm always covered by what the factory recommends.
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Deleted
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Registered: Nov 21, 2024 4:21:33 GMT -7
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2018 10:06:16 GMT -7
Many folks think thicker oil protects better, but that's not always the case. It's thicker, so harder to pump, and provides less lubrication. The higher viscosity oil is typically recommended for track duty, where oil temperatures get much higher than even brisk street riding. But to each his own. You're not going to blow your engine with either of those oils; that's for sure. And remember ALL engines are designed to run at 200-230º, so that's not hot by any engine means; just normal. You might need a thicker oil when it gets a lot higher than that, like on a track, at sustained high rpm and WOT. When cold, the less viscous the oil, the better, so actually the best oil would be 0/40, but could only find 5/40 (which I'm going to use), and fortunately, on the excellent Castrol Power 1 4T, which also makes 10/40. Finally, Yamaha calls for full synthetic oil, which weirdly, they don't make in 10/40, so if you want to stick with Yamalube, and comply with Yamaha recommendation of full synthetic oil, the only choice you have is 15/50. I'd never put 15/50 without tracking the bike, but that's just me . Wonder what our bikes have from the factory: dino 10/40 or synthetic 15/50? Does anybody know for a fact? And do they put a 'break-in additive', or not? Thanks.
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peripateticmike
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Registered: Feb 25, 2018 10:09:30 GMT -7
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Post by peripateticmike on Nov 2, 2018 11:21:09 GMT -7
Yay, oil discussions. The temps that we operate our bikes, there is NO need to go with a 5 or even 10 oil. If you're starting your bike in below 10 degree weather and going for a ride then I salute you and you're nuts. These are high revving engines compared to your average automobile engine. Higher numbers provide better protection for high heat and high load situations. I operate my bikes in a warmer climate where I won't be out riding in any colder than 60F and where it can get over 100 on rides more inland. I run 20w50, my choice, my bikes run great and I run them hard. Also the lower 0w20 etc oils have been developed more to help EPA fuel economy numbers, not for some added protection benefit. You can see in the charts below, at normal median temps there is no real difference. It's when you get to the extremes that considerations need to be made.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2018 15:01:43 GMT -7
What you say was mostly true, but 2 things. First, the last chart is not accurate for modern fully synthetic oils (or it's outdated). You now have the same protection at high temperature from a 5/40 than a 10/40 oil. And second, yeah, a 5 or 10 oil is going to be fine used above the temperatures on your first graph; no question about that. But what you're not recognizing is that cold oil, even at 40 or 50º is quite thick, and that a 5 oil is thinner than a 10, and 10 thinner than 15. And thinner oil is going to start fully lubricating before the thicker oil. And that is common sense. What we don't know is how much of a benefit it is, but it has to be a benefit fully lubricating critical parts sooner. I assume you also know cold oil doesn't fully lubricate an engine, and that's why you're not supposed to run it anywhere close to redline until hot, but just wanted to mention it in case somebody else doesn't know. Also well known is the fact the majority of engine wear happens at cold starts, so even if the thinner cold oil lubricates sooner just a few seconds, those are precious seconds, I'd say . But again, for the amount of miles most of us keep our bikes, we could even use Crisco oil and be fine. Ha ha. But I like only the best for my vehicles, and don't mind taking care of them for somebody else. It makes me feel good. Ha ha. But yes, bottom line is whichever oil you use, bike would be fine. The trick is to change it regularly, along with the filter. I'll stick with Castrol Power1 4T 5/40 myself. If I tracked my bike, especially where I live (hot TX), I'd use 50. Great discussion. Have a great weekend.
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peripateticmike
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Post by peripateticmike on Nov 2, 2018 16:16:41 GMT -7
The oil thickness at 50 degrees is not going to make any difference at start up if it's 20 or a 5 viscosity. If it's 10 below zero, then yes, it will. Synthetics are better at handling extreme heat without breaking down and provide longevity over conventional oil.
"You now have the same protection at high temperature from a 5/40 than a 10/40 oil." Of course you have the same protection at higher temps because they're both 40's!
Viscosity numbers for a 40 dino oil and 40 for a synthetic.....are still 40!
I'm not really sure know what you're talking about, not trying to be rude.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2018 12:37:25 GMT -7
The oil thickness at 50 degrees is not going to make any difference at start up if it's 20 or a 5 viscosity. You're dead wrong brother. And you can prove it to yourself very easily by pouring both. It definitely makes a difference. As I said, it's not going to take minutes, but whatever seconds the thinner oil starts lubricates better while it heats up, the better. ANY cold oil (even if it's 80ºF or more) is waaaay too thick to provide proper lubrication, as you should know, so it's only obvious the thinner it is when cold, the quicker it'd reach the proper viscosity when hot. And of course they provide better lubrication than thicker oil, regardless of temperature. The difference is not day and night by any means, but BETTER. And that's a fact too . And if you see your own chart you'd see that the 5/40 oil shows less hot protection than 10/40; that's why I made the comment. It used to be that way, since the more spread from low to high number meant a less stable oil, but not anymore with modern full synthetics. Seems like you're not going to change your mind, but that's okay. As I alluded initially, no oil is going to harm the bike, so any would be fine. But wanted to explain the correct reasoning. If 5/10/20 were the same, there wouldn't be offered. The minimum cold temp on your chart is the minimum you should subject your engine to, but the benefits are at ANY temperature. And since thinner oils work at lower temperatures, it's also pretty obvious they're thinner and flow easier. If you can't get that, don't know how else to make you see that. He he. Have a great weekend. EDIT: As an example, I bought a brand new truck to haul my bike (2018 F-150 Platinum) that came with the recommended 5/30 oil. The valvetrain always made noise at start-up for about a second at 80/90º since mile 3, and for about 2 seconds at 60º, which also tells you the lower the temperature (even when not really cold) the thicker the oil. And that's perfectly normal, by the way. I switched to the new M1 0/30 at 3K miles, and now the engine makes zero such noise, meaning the thinner oil reaches the valvetrain quicker. Yesterday started it at around 50ºF, and zero noise. Very pleased with the change. Less wear when cold, but same protection when hot. A win-win for me . Good day.
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Post by evitzee on Nov 3, 2018 12:59:04 GMT -7
The argument can also be made that a thinner oil will not cling to the engine parts as readily as a thicker oil as the engine cools. Thus, on startup, the moving parts may have less residual oil to aid in lubrication for a few seconds as the oil gets pumped around. Look, we are all trying to polish a hollow apple here. Whether you use a 5W, 10W or 15W it will not make a hill of beans difference in the longevity of the engine. The manufacturer recommends a 10W- or 15W-, but the world will not come to the end if you want to use a 5W-. If you think it is giving you better protection on startup then go that route. But in practical application it will make no difference at all.
Maybe we should switch to gasoline preferences.....another topic where everyone has a theory why Brand X is better than Brand Y.
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