maxxj
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Post by maxxj on Apr 4, 2023 17:54:30 GMT -7
Starting with just the rear
I'm mainly trying to extend my tire life and take a little bounce out of the rear, the bounce isn't all that bad around here because the roads are pretty decent. I'll get to the front somewhere down the line but right now the rear needs the attention most.
Is somebody that just rides kinda hard on street and not track going to notice any difference between these three names? Or would a respring be just as good?
Penske $945
Ktech $1300
Ohlins $1500
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Post by willl84 on Apr 5, 2023 3:56:29 GMT -7
I've heard a lot of good things about both Penske and K-Tech as compared to Ohlins for the money. I'm still running stock but I swapped in a stiffer K-Tech spring and it made a difference with some compression and rebound adjustments as well
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maxxj
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Posts: 61
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Registered: Jul 7, 2022 7:44:49 GMT -7
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Post by maxxj on Apr 5, 2023 4:53:13 GMT -7
I've heard a lot of good things about both Penske and K-Tech as compared to Ohlins for the money. I'm still running stock but I swapped in a stiffer K-Tech spring and it made a difference with some compression and rebound adjustments as well Performance difference or tire life difference? I'm guessing both, how many more miles do you think you're getting? |
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bmwd40
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Post by bmwd40 on Apr 5, 2023 8:34:13 GMT -7
With the stock rear shock, depending on your weight, it transferes so much weight to the rear tire that you wind up eating a rear tire before the front tire is shot. That means you have to replace the rear tire before the front tire is shot. Some times with this situation the front wears out before the 2nd rear tire is shot. I want both the rear tire and front tire to wear out at the same rate. A properly sprung and damped shock will keep you from going through 2 rears for every front tire. Any of the mentioned after market shock are better than the stock shock, even a re-spung stock shock. When you re-spring the stock shock with a stiffer spring you wind up over powering the stock rebound damping as it is weak to begin with. The MT-10 was the first bike I have had, with stock suspension, that I had to replace the rear before the front was shot until I changed the shock to a properly sprung Ohlins shock.
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Post by willl84 on Apr 6, 2023 3:41:57 GMT -7
I've heard a lot of good things about both Penske and K-Tech as compared to Ohlins for the money. I'm still running stock but I swapped in a stiffer K-Tech spring and it made a difference with some compression and rebound adjustments as well Performance difference or tire life difference? I'm guessing both, how many more miles do you think you're getting? Can't comment on tire life difference as I've swapped to different tires. I got 1400 miles from the OEM rear and got a puncture and had it replaced. At 5k the front was toast and had them replaced with Angel GT 2's. I'm at 10k now and they've still got plenty left in them Performance difference was huge though. i'm like 265 geared up and the stock springs were way too soft. I went stiffer on front and rear (k-tech for both) and also went with lighter oil weight in the front (2.5 vs 5). There was a thread here with basic comp/reb setting and I set them all to that guide and honestly haven't touched them. It's so much better than stock. I've had ohlins on bikes in the past and honestly unless you're a hardcore racer or trackday rider it doesn't make much of a difference over properly setup OEM stuff. I had a TLR with front and rear ohlins that were setup professionally for me by GMD computrack and there was a difference but definitely not worth the price honestly. As far as tire life goes I've been riding for over 20 years and it's always been 2 rears to a front for me, regardless of the bike or suspension. |
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Post by willl84 on Apr 6, 2023 3:45:16 GMT -7
With the stock rear shock, depending on your weight, it transferes so much weight to the rear tire that you wind up eating a rear tire before the front tire is shot. That means you have to replace the rear tire before the front tire is shot. Some times with this situation the front wears out before the 2nd rear tire is shot. I want both the rear tire and front tire to wear out at the same rate. A properly sprung and damped shock will keep you from going through 2 rears for every front tire. Any of the mentioned after market shock are better than the stock shock, even a re-spung stock shock. When you re-spring the stock shock with a stiffer spring you wind up over powering the stock rebound damping as it is weak to begin with. The MT-10 was the first bike I have had, with stock suspension, that I had to replace the rear before the front was shot until I changed the shock to a properly sprung Ohlins shock. 2 rears to a front is pretty much rule of thumb for any bike honestly unless you're on the track. In my 20+ years and 100's of thousands of miles ridden it's been that way regardless of bike or tire. I only got 5k out of the stock front on this bike though so that would have probably been 1:1. Then again OEM tires aren't the greatest |
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bmwd40
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Post by bmwd40 on Apr 6, 2023 4:45:40 GMT -7
Well my first real sport bike was a 1983 Suzuki GS750ESD and I have been setting up suspensions for 40 years and I can tell you that if you are using 2 rears for one front, you suspension is not set up correctly or you just do a lot of wheelies. I only ride on the street these days and everyone that I ride with from Kawasaki ZH2's, BMW s1000rr's, ZX636's and Ducati Panigale's all run through a set of tires front and rear at the same time. The common factor in this situation is that they have all had thier suspensions set up properly for thier weight and riding style. I remember you saying, in another post that you needed to get your susension set up. Maybe its time for you to get someone who knows how to set it up for you. If you are ever in New York in the Hudson Valley, I would be happy to try and set up your suspension the best I could given the stock components.
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Post by willl84 on Apr 6, 2023 5:56:24 GMT -7
Well my first real sport bike was a 1983 Suzuki GS750ESD and I have been setting up suspensions for 40 years and I can tell you that if you are using 2 rears for one front, you suspension is not set up correctly or you just do a lot of wheelies. I only ride on the street these days and everyone that I ride with from Kawasaki ZH2's, BMW s1000rr's, ZX636's and Ducati Panigale's all run through a set of tires front and rear at the same time. The common factor in this situation is that they have all had thier suspensions set up properly for thier weight and riding style. I remember you saying, in another post that you needed to get your susension set up. Maybe its time for you to get someone who knows how to set it up for you. If you are ever in New York in the Hudson Valley, I would be happy to try and set up your suspension the best I could given the stock components. How can you possibly do 1:1 on the street? The rear takes all the load when accelerating. The front only really takes a load in hard cornering and braking. Like I said previously, I had my TLR Ohlins professionally set up by GMD Computrack in Bellingham MA and still went 2:1. Hell with the TLR and even the MT (even after the 2WDW flash) the engine braking was/is so strong I hardly even use the front brakes. |
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bmwd40
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Post by bmwd40 on Apr 6, 2023 6:58:28 GMT -7
I would just say that you don't corner hard enough. We don't do straights LOL.
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Deleted
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Registered: Nov 21, 2024 1:54:45 GMT -7
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2023 7:41:32 GMT -7
Performance difference or tire life difference? I'm guessing both, how many more miles do you think you're getting? Can't comment on tire life difference as I've swapped to different tires. I got 1400 miles from the OEM rear and got a puncture and had it replaced. At 5k the front was toast and had them replaced with Angel GT 2's. I'm at 10k now and they've still got plenty left in them Performance difference was huge though. i'm like 265 geared up and the stock springs were way too soft. I went stiffer on front and rear (k-tech for both) and also went with lighter oil weight in the front (2.5 vs 5). There was a thread here with basic comp/reb setting and I set them all to that guide and honestly haven't touched them. It's so much better than stock. I've had ohlins on bikes in the past and honestly unless you're a hardcore racer or trackday rider it doesn't make much of a difference over properly setup OEM stuff. I had a TLR with front and rear ohlins that were setup professionally for me by GMD computrack and there was a difference but definitely not worth the price honestly. As far as tire life goes I've been riding for over 20 years and it's always been 2 rears to a front for me, regardless of the bike or suspension. Your experience drastically differs from mine so I disagree with your assessment. Riding multiple bikes of all different types from GSXR, Kawi, Harley, even dirt bikes I have never owned a bike where the front tire wears out at the same time as the rear. Its just physics because the power, and majority of the weight, is on the rear so naturally it will wear at a faster rate than the front. In my experience its ususally 2 rear tires for every front. I ride track, tour, commute, and do offroad riding. I have my suspension setup by a professional at the track. Its always the same. So I suggest to OP, if they have not already tried, to pay for their suspension to be setup by a professional. When I did my rear when from a pogo stick to pretty darn solid. |
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bmwd40
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Post by bmwd40 on Apr 6, 2023 8:40:16 GMT -7
I have also owned GSXR's, ZX7RR, ZX10R's, Aprila RS250s and my current MT-10. I was a mechanic for On Edge Racing and traveled the country for many race events. Most sport bikes are set up 50% front to 50% rear weight bias. I can not speak for you guys, but I could never get 2 rears out of one front tire. When the rear is shot the front "Might" have another 200 to 300 miles left, not worth the time to try and squeek a couple of hundred miles out of the front when you put on a new rear. Also if you used "Sport" tires, like RS10's or Q4's, extra, you are not going to get 2 rears out of a front, unless you ride the rear tire. I have a tire machine and change tires for all the guys I ride with and no one gets 2 rears out of 1 front. Just the way we ride and the roads we ride on, I guss. So you can agree or disagree, but in my experience if you wear out the rear before the front on a Hyper Sports bike, your suspensing and bike balance needs to be looked at.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2023 10:43:41 GMT -7
I have also owned GSXR's, ZX7RR, ZX10R's, Aprila RS250s and my current MT-10. I was a mechanic for On Edge Racing and traveled the country for many race events. Most sport bikes are set up 50% front to 50% rear weight bias. I can not speak for you guys, but I could never get 2 rears out of one front tire. When the rear is shot the front "Might" have another 200 to 300 miles left, not worth the time to try and squeek a couple of hundred miles out of the front when you put on a new rear. Also if you used "Sport" tires, like RS10's or Q4's, extra, you are not going to get 2 rears out of a front, unless you ride the rear tire. I have a tire machine and change tires for all the guys I ride with and no one gets 2 rears out of 1 front. Just the way we ride and the roads we ride on, I guss. So you can agree or disagree, but in my experience if you wear out the rear before the front on a Hyper Sports bike, your suspensing and bike balance needs to be looked at. You really do have a very unique experience and perspective. A quick google of the subject showed agreement that the rear usually wears out at a rate of ~2x faster than the front. |
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bmwd40
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Post by bmwd40 on Apr 6, 2023 11:21:10 GMT -7
Google? Thats funny. Don't know what you consider "Unique", but 40 years of riding and wrenching is my "Google". Got to love the internet. Again if your bike is set up right you will minimize tire wear which will equalize the wear front to rear. Have you ever measured swingarm angle and the effect of rake and trail? There is a lot of science involved relating to geometry that dictates weight distribution. I wonder how many Googles know how to set up a bike for road or track? I understand that a Harley would wear out a rear tire before the front, but that is not sport bike. If you are riding a sport bike you are eather riding on a shot front tire with the second rear or you have a suspension issue and a rearward weight bias which would mean the front may still have some life left. Not knocking anyone, just highlighting the issues with stock MT-10 suspension and what would cause you to eat a rear tire and how to equalize the wear between front and rear.
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maxxj
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Post by maxxj on Apr 6, 2023 18:19:36 GMT -7
With gear I'm around 300, sometimes I have luggage. My suspension is about as tuned as it can get with the stock hardware. I get right around 4000 on a rear road5 and 7000 on the front, I think less actually. Wasn't paying attention to miles when I put the road6 on the rear but I think it's got about 1500 and already getting funny wear. I'm not terribly concerned about price but if the returns weren't all that great I probably would have opted for just a respring.
Might end up going with ktech.
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Post by mt10orc on Apr 6, 2023 22:27:32 GMT -7
Well my first real sport bike was a 1983 Suzuki GS750ESD and I have been setting up suspensions for 40 years and I can tell you that if you are using 2 rears for one front, you suspension is not set up correctly or you just do a lot of wheelies. I only ride on the street these days and everyone that I ride with from Kawasaki ZH2's, BMW s1000rr's, ZX636's and Ducati Panigale's all run through a set of tires front and rear at the same time. The common factor in this situation is that they have all had thier suspensions set up properly for thier weight and riding style. I remember you saying, in another post that you needed to get your susension set up. Maybe its time for you to get someone who knows how to set it up for you. If you are ever in New York in the Hudson Valley, I would be happy to try and set up your suspension the best I could given the stock components. How can you possibly do 1:1 on the street? The rear takes all the load when accelerating. The front only really takes a load in hard cornering and braking. Like I said previously, I had my TLR Ohlins professionally set up by GMD Computrack in Bellingham MA and still went 2:1. Hell with the TLR and even the MT (even after the 2WDW flash) the engine braking was/is so strong I hardly even use the front brakes. I have to concur with Will on the 2:1 rear to front ratio. I can’t ever think in my 45 years of riding that I ever had 1:1. Have always burned thru the rear before the front. |
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Post by mt10orc on Apr 6, 2023 22:35:08 GMT -7
I have also owned GSXR's, ZX7RR, ZX10R's, Aprila RS250s and my current MT-10. I was a mechanic for On Edge Racing and traveled the country for many race events. Most sport bikes are set up 50% front to 50% rear weight bias. I can not speak for you guys, but I could never get 2 rears out of one front tire. When the rear is shot the front "Might" have another 200 to 300 miles left, not worth the time to try and squeek a couple of hundred miles out of the front when you put on a new rear. Also if you used "Sport" tires, like RS10's or Q4's, extra, you are not going to get 2 rears out of a front, unless you ride the rear tire. I have a tire machine and change tires for all the guys I ride with and no one gets 2 rears out of 1 front. Just the way we ride and the roads we ride on, I guss. So you can agree or disagree, but in my experience if you wear out the rear before the front on a Hyper Sports bike, your suspensing and bike balance needs to be looked at. Well you have the ability for good setup as well as your friends to achieve 1:1. I’ve never had that experience, but then I never really screw with my suspension much either. Maybe I wheelie and engine break too much. |
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Post by willl84 on Apr 7, 2023 5:18:42 GMT -7
I have also owned GSXR's, ZX7RR, ZX10R's, Aprila RS250s and my current MT-10. I was a mechanic for On Edge Racing and traveled the country for many race events. Most sport bikes are set up 50% front to 50% rear weight bias. I can not speak for you guys, but I could never get 2 rears out of one front tire. When the rear is shot the front "Might" have another 200 to 300 miles left, not worth the time to try and squeek a couple of hundred miles out of the front when you put on a new rear. Also if you used "Sport" tires, like RS10's or Q4's, extra, you are not going to get 2 rears out of a front, unless you ride the rear tire. I have a tire machine and change tires for all the guys I ride with and no one gets 2 rears out of 1 front. Just the way we ride and the roads we ride on, I guss. So you can agree or disagree, but in my experience if you wear out the rear before the front on a Hyper Sports bike, your suspensing and bike balance needs to be looked at. Or maybe it's due to the type of riding. Like you and I both stated. I don't do hard riding. 90% or more of my riding is commuting. Hard acceleration and engine braking. Those two things eat rear tires and the fronts are just along for the ride. 2:1 is the norm from what I've seen for that type of riding. Now racing, track days, hard canyon/twisties riding all the time? I can 100% see that being a 1:1 situation. So saying that 2:1 is due to bad suspension yadda yadda when it's ACTUALLy due to HOW the miles are being put on is kinda silly. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2023 6:19:43 GMT -7
Google? Thats funny. Don't know what you consider "Unique", but 40 years of riding and wrenching is my "Google". Got to love the internet. Again if your bike is set up right you will minimize tire wear which will equalize the wear front to rear. Have you ever measured swingarm angle and the effect of rake and trail? There is a lot of science involved relating to geometry that dictates weight distribution. I wonder how many Googles know how to set up a bike for road or track? I understand that a Harley would wear out a rear tire before the front, but that is not sport bike. If you are riding a sport bike you are eather riding on a shot front tire with the second rear or you have a suspension issue and a rearward weight bias which would mean the front may still have some life left. Not knocking anyone, just highlighting the issues with stock MT-10 suspension and what would cause you to eat a rear tire and how to equalize the wear between front and rear. I am an avid track rider but no expert. I ride in the intermediate group and getting ready to move on to advanced. Been riding track seriously for about 5 years now. Everything you are saying is contradictory to everything I have been taught and personally learned from other riders and organizations. So yeah your situation is unique but you appear to sound like you know everything and want to tell me I am wrong. Beside "your opinion" is there any other evidence that motorcycle tires should wear 1:1? I mean if you apply physics to the thought process the tire where the power goes to should always wear faster. Just like on cars. Front wheel drive wears front tires faster just as rear wheel drive wears rear wheels faster, hench when you have a square setup you rotate them. So from my experience if you are wearing 1:1 you have too much weight on the front and are riding the front tire too hard which is dangerous. |
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bmwd40
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Post by bmwd40 on Apr 7, 2023 7:36:57 GMT -7
Rear tire has a larger contact patch than the front, so it has more surface area. Might be dangerous for you, but has never been a problem for me on the track or the street. Question, ever brake hard enough to lift the rear wheel off the ground? I guess "A Man Needs To Know His Limitations". If you are ham fisted with the trottle and not smooth, I could see you burning up a rear tire before the front.
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Post by mt10orc on Apr 7, 2023 7:56:03 GMT -7
Ham fisted 100%, it’s a MT-10 why would it be anything but mash the gas. 😃
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