fastfed
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Post by fastfed on Aug 14, 2019 20:31:17 GMT -7
So I finally put some miles on my new (to me) 2017 fz10 with 11k miles on her, I did about 60 miles today. One thing I noticed is the clutch engages all the way at the end, the first few mm of pull disengages the clutch and I have about and inch or 2 of engagement. I've seen many videos of guys like do it with dan and others where it looks about the same, people probably like that because you only have to pull so little. I've checked to make sure its completely pulled in when I let go of the clutch lever so its not riding the clutch, but I'm coming from a 2006 gsxr1000 and maybe I just need to get used to it? It's just so hard to downshift and blip the throttle, I keep pulling the lever all the way in.
Also, the throttle, I know this thing is fly by wire type of system, but how much free play should be in the throttle? I feel like there is too much which could also be hindering my downshifts.
Thanks!
EDIT* I also read this has a slipper clutch, not that sure how that works
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2019 22:10:27 GMT -7
This is my first cable clutch, and I like it a lot. Much more linear than hydraulic ones. But yes, most bikes have clutch engagement towards the end of lever travel, and this bike is no exception. But it's perfectly normal. The throttle play I always adjust to the minimum, which is only a couple of millimeters or so (check the manual). Just make sure there's still a hair of play when engine is fully hot, and bars fully turned both sides (check that idle doesn't go up at all), which is exactly the case on my bike. Even in STD mode, I was executing some perfect rev-matched downshifts right off the bat, so the clutch and throttle are better than I expected. But yes, you have to be perfect with the clutch for fully smooth downshifts. I'm working on that, which is part of the fun  . Adjust throttle and clutch play, and change throttle settings until you find the right one. It shouldn't be hard. Good luck. |
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fastfed
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Post by fastfed on Aug 15, 2019 6:35:51 GMT -7
ok thanks, I figured it was normal. I checked the free play in both the throttle and clutch and both are perfect.
I just need to get used to it I guess. I just realized making this thread this bike uses a cable clutch, vs a hydraulic. I'm shocked with how advanced this bike is they went with a cable. My buddies 2004 CBR had a hydraulic clutch lol.
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fastfed
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Post by fastfed on Aug 15, 2019 8:35:31 GMT -7
could someone quickly give me a summary of a slipper clutch? I remember my 06 gsxr, there was a mod that made it "like" a slipper clutch. I assume this just means I can rev the heck out of it while letting out the clutch not fearing damage as much?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 9:33:22 GMT -7
All true sportbikes have a cable clutch nowadays, including expensive ones, like BMW's S1000RR, R1Ms, etc. supposedly for weight savings, but I bet the main reason is cost. Other 'features' of true sportbikes definitely due to weight savings are chain final drive and fork suspension (BMW still uses their telelever and duolever on other less sporty bikes). Since our bikes are derived from the R1, they inherited the cable clutch. But I have to say I like the feel of this cable clutch better than all hydraulic ones I've owned in the past.
As a related comment, do any of you have lubed the cable clutch on your FZ/MT-10? Wonder how long they last from the factory. And do you need a cable lubing gizmo or not? Just curious. This is my first cable clutch ever. Thx.
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fastfed
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Post by fastfed on Aug 15, 2019 12:53:43 GMT -7
never tried a hydraulic clutch before (on a bike, m3 had one)
I liked my mustangs cable clutch better than the m3, only difference the m3 was super soft in comparison
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Post by evitzee on Aug 15, 2019 17:53:41 GMT -7
could someone quickly give me a summary of a slipper clutch? I remember my 06 gsxr, there was a mod that made it "like" a slipper clutch. I assume this just means I can rev the heck out of it while letting out the clutch not fearing damage as much? Search for 'slipper clutch explained' on YouTube and watch the one from Motorcyclist Magazine. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 20:22:21 GMT -7
I assume this just means I can rev the heck out of it while letting out the clutch not fearing damage as much? Absolutely not. A wet, multi-plate clutch withstands more abuse than a dry, single-plate one, but if you abuse it, it'd wear out quicker. A slipper clutch simply slips the opposite way, meaning on deceleration (not acceleration), like when you make an aggressive downshift and release the clutch too quickly, the rear tire slips, rather than locking up. There're different ways to achieve that, but that's the principle of a slipper clutch. Hope this helps. |
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fastfed
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Post by fastfed on Aug 18, 2019 21:00:40 GMT -7
is there a way to adjust the clutch to engage lower? instead of at the last inch? do I need a shorter cable
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cp3ryder
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Previous bikes: 84 FJ600, 87 VFR700, 03 CBR600F4i, 15 FJ09, 16 XSR900, 13 F6B.
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Post by cp3ryder on Aug 18, 2019 23:01:04 GMT -7
is there a way to adjust the clutch to engage lower? instead of at the last inch? do I need a shorter cable There's a threaded adjuster right at the clutch lever. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 13:03:39 GMT -7
There's a threaded adjuster right at the clutch lever. That's for free play, not for clutch engagement. Clutch engagement can't be changed, since there's a physical stop at the clutch's pawl (where the cable attaches to). So it is what it is. |
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dkim213
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Post by dkim213 on Aug 19, 2019 14:06:32 GMT -7
You can run that adjuster on the clutch lever to tune the catch point. Just make sure that there IS free play and the clutch is fully disengaged with engine cold and hot when the lever is pulled back
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2019 19:19:47 GMT -7
You'd be only adding slop that way. When the lever on the clutch cover reaches its stop, it doesn't rotate any further away, and therefore, doesn't move engagement point, and doesn't tension the clutch cable anymore. It's mechanics 101, but I'm done trying to explain the obvious here . |
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cp3ryder
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Previous bikes: 84 FJ600, 87 VFR700, 03 CBR600F4i, 15 FJ09, 16 XSR900, 13 F6B.
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Post by cp3ryder on Aug 19, 2019 19:22:32 GMT -7
There's a threaded adjuster right at the clutch lever. That's for free play, not for clutch engagement. Clutch engagement can't be changed, since there's a physical stop at the clutch's pawl (where the cable attaches to). So it is what it is. Clutch adjustment 101 |
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dkim213
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Post by dkim213 on Aug 19, 2019 19:47:34 GMT -7
You'd be only adding slop that way. When the lever on the clutch cover reaches its stop, it doesn't rotate any further away, and therefore, doesn't move engagement point, and doesn't tension the clutch cable anymore. It's mechanics 101, but I'm done trying to explain the obvious here . You’re wrong. Period. Please stop spreading misinformation. The video above states that you’re wrong. |
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Post by evitzee on Aug 20, 2019 4:08:23 GMT -7
You'd be only adding slop that way. When the lever on the clutch cover reaches its stop, it doesn't rotate any further away, and therefore, doesn't move engagement point, and doesn't tension the clutch cable anymore. It's mechanics 101, but I'm done trying to explain the obvious here . You’re wrong. Period. Please stop spreading misinformation. The video above states that you’re wrong. No, he's not wrong, you are wrong. And the video proves it. You cannot adjust what is happening inside the transmission, it's an engineered package. All the limited adjustment you do on the cable is to change the slack slightly, it changes how far the lever has to move before it starts to disengage the clutch plates. It doesn't change the bite point of the clutch plates. The slack is 5 to 10 mm at the end of the lever per the manual. If you want to adjust the lever position relative to your fingers or the grip you do that with the lever adjuster. Many aftermarket ones like ASV and Pazzo allow a wide range of adjustment. But keep the slack between 5 and 10 mm. Going outside these limits will cause problems as the video points out. |
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cp3ryder
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Previous bikes: 84 FJ600, 87 VFR700, 03 CBR600F4i, 15 FJ09, 16 XSR900, 13 F6B.
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Post by cp3ryder on Aug 20, 2019 5:07:22 GMT -7
Fastfed, don't be afraid to make minor adjustments to the clutch cable to give it a better feel for you, as dkim213 said. You do have a small window of adjustment while still maintaining acceptable free play and disengagement.
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fastfed
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Post by fastfed on Aug 20, 2019 6:25:51 GMT -7
I'm just not grasping the concept here. If I adjust from the top the only thing I'm doing is pulling in the clutch, giving myself less of a grip zone, while it might engage earlier I have less grip zone and fear actually still lightly applying some clutch with the lever completely out.
It just feels so weird for me with the engagement all the way at the last inch of lever.
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fastfed
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Post by fastfed on Aug 20, 2019 6:42:28 GMT -7
ooops, just read all the replies. maybe I am grasping here. There is no real adjustment for engagement point. With this bike its at the end of the lever travel, as long as my lever has the correct slack I'm good.
If that's the case I guess I'm ok with this, just gonna have to get used to such a small contact point in the clutch. My gsxr had probably double what I have with this bike and I felt that was small lol.
I have aftermarket levers too
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dkim213
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Post by dkim213 on Aug 20, 2019 6:58:58 GMT -7
You’re wrong. Period. Please stop spreading misinformation. The video above states that you’re wrong. No, he's not wrong, you are wrong. And the video proves it. You cannot adjust what is happening inside the transmission, it's an engineered package. All the limited adjustment you do on the cable is to change the slack slightly, it changes how far the lever has to move before it starts to disengage the clutch plates. It doesn't change the bite point of the clutch plates. The slack is 5 to 10 mm at the end of the lever per the manual. If you want to adjust the lever position relative to your fingers or the grip you do that with the lever adjuster. Many aftermarket ones like ASV and Pazzo allow a wide range of adjustment. But keep the slack between 5 and 10 mm. Going outside these limits will cause problems as the video points out. Go toward the end of the video. He only says all that stuff in the beginning to CYA. There’s a fixed throw for clutch disengage/engage. That amount of lever travel doesn’t change. When you screw the adjuster in, you change the disengage/engage point on the clutch lever. Screw the adjuster in, and the clutch disengagement (pulling in) and clutch engagement (letting out) gets closer to the bar. As long as it fully disengages when cold and hot, you’re not going to cause damage. As long as there is free play on the lever, the clutch will be fully engaged. I’m not sure why some can’t grasp this concept. Next time you go to ride, screw your clutch adjuster in and feel the change in the disengage/engage location. |
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. Adjust throttle and clutch play, and change throttle settings until you find the right one. It shouldn't be hard. Good luck.
