steves
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Posts: 41
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Registered: Jan 22, 2018 18:30:53 GMT -7
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Post by steves on Feb 11, 2018 18:09:54 GMT -7
I went to do my first oil change yesterday at 600 miles. Armed with new oil, a new Yamaha filter, a new crush washer, and even a new drain plug (just in case the hex socket wasn't up to the torque), I looked forward to a much simpler oil change than I've been doing the last several years on my KTM 950. The drain plug came out cleanly and easily and the bulk of the oil was soon in the pan. Things got disconcerting when I went to remove the filter. I put the filter socket on the filter and tried to loosen it. It didn't budge. After ensuring the filter socket was well-seated on the filter, I leaned into it. That only rounded the flats on the filter. The filter didn't budge. With a curse and a groan, I grabbed a hammer and a screwdriver and drove the screwdriver in one side of the filter and out the other. I then put a pair of vice grips on the end of the screwdriver for leverage and leaned into that, which brought a moment of joy as I felt it give. Sadly, my joy was short-lived; the screwdriver had just torn the filter casing some. The filter hadn't budged. After more cursing, I went down to Napa and bought a strap-type filter wrench. I tried that alone and in conjunction with the screwdriver through the filter. It didn't budge. After lots more cursing and some Internet searching for ideas, I lined the strap wrench with sandpaper to give it better bite on the filter. Leaning hard on the filter wrench did nothing. Leaning hard on the filter wrench while whacking the handle with a hammer worked. It budged! Wiping away tears of joy, I readied my hammer for what I figured would be the whack that freed the filter once and for all. But it just budged. Another dozen or so furious blows moved the filter about 1/4 turn. Obviously, I kept at it. After no fewer than 100 blows -- 4 of which pinched the web of my hand between the hammer and the handle of the filter wrench, the filter had spun through two full turns and finally came off easily. This is what the filter looked like: Keen eyes will have noticed that something is amiss with those threads. At this point, I was disappointed but less than surprised to see that the mounting threads looked like this: I took delivery of my bike two weeks ago with 1 mile on the odometer. Obviously, this is a factory assembly problem, which is very disappointing. The only silver lining is that it looks like the filter mounting fitting is removable, which brings me to my question: Would any special tools or techniques be required to remove or replace this fitting? The service manual calls this this an "Oil Filter Cartridge Union Bolt" and only mentions that it should be torqued (with engine oil) to 70 N-m.
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Post by papawheelie on Feb 11, 2018 19:41:01 GMT -7
Wow, that is very disappointing! If I had that experience during my first oil change, I would probably be questioning everything about the bike. Very glad that you finally got the filter off. Nice work.
I don’t have any help to offer, but empathize with your experience.
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ikranmakto
Junior Member
Posts: 90
Likes: 44
Registered: Dec 1, 2017 23:13:03 GMT -7
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Post by ikranmakto on Feb 11, 2018 21:56:20 GMT -7
Sounds like you needed a bigger hammer. Can you repost photos as they are not visible.
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Post by evitzee on Feb 11, 2018 22:38:54 GMT -7
This is a common problem, the filters are factory installed most likely with a pneumatic tool and they are often very tight. I always dread the first change, fortunately mine came off with no issues. I recommend a good coating of oil on the new gasket and put it on until it makes contact and then tighten it 1/2 to 3/4 turn. Next time it will easily come off.
Yeah, can't see the pics either.
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Post by heathhudnall on Feb 12, 2018 4:49:55 GMT -7
That's not cool that you had problems with such an easy task. I can't see the photos either.
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steves
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Posts: 41
Likes: 13
Registered: Jan 22, 2018 18:30:53 GMT -7
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Post by steves on Feb 12, 2018 9:45:20 GMT -7
I just re-inserted the images. Can you see them now?
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Post by Cruizin on Feb 12, 2018 9:47:17 GMT -7
I went to do my first oil change yesterday at 600 miles. Armed with new oil, a new Yamaha filter, a new crush washer, and even a new drain plug (just in case the hex socket wasn't up to the torque), I looked forward to a much simpler oil change than I've been doing the last several years on my KTM 950. The drain plug came out cleanly and easily and the bulk of the oil was soon in the pan. Things got disconcerting when I went to remove the filter. I put the filter socket on the filter and tried to loosen it. It didn't budge. After ensuring the filter socket was well-seated on the filter, I leaned into it. That only rounded the flats on the filter. The filter didn't budge. With a curse and a groan, I grabbed a hammer and a screwdriver and drove the screwdriver in one side of the filter and out the other. I then put a pair of vice grips on the end of the screwdriver for leverage and leaned into that, which brought a moment of joy as I felt it give. Sadly, my joy was short-lived; the screwdriver had just torn the filter casing some. The filter hadn't budged. After more cursing, I went down to Napa and bought a strap-type filter wrench. I tried that alone and in conjunction with the screwdriver through the filter. It didn't budge. After lots more cursing and some Internet searching for ideas, I lined the strap wrench with sandpaper to give it better bite on the filter. Leaning hard on the filter wrench did nothing. Leaning hard on the filter wrench while whacking the handle with a hammer worked. It budged! Wiping away tears of joy, I readied my hammer for what I figured would be the whack that freed the filter once and for all. But it just budged. Another dozen or so furious blows moved the filter about 1/4 turn. Obviously, I kept at it. After no fewer than 100 blows -- 4 of which pinched the web of my hand between the hammer and the handle of the filter wrench, the filter had spun through two full turns and finally came off easily. This is what the filter looked like: Keen eyes will have noticed that something is amiss with those threads. At this point, I was disappointed but less than surprised to see that the mounting threads looked like this: I took delivery of my bike two weeks ago with 1 mile on the odometer. Obviously, this is a factory assembly problem, which is very disappointing. The only silver lining is that it looks like the filter mounting fitting is removable, which brings me to my question: Would any special tools or techniques be required to remove or replace this fitting? The service manual calls this this an "Oil Filter Cartridge Union Bolt" and only mentions that it should be torqued (with engine oil) to 70 N-m. I see two pics just fine, but next time try using our button that says "add image to post".
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Post by heathhudnall on Feb 12, 2018 9:55:00 GMT -7
steves I see them now. Wow, those threads are destroyed. I wonder who the nincompoop was who put that filter on.
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speedydave
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Posts: 53
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Registered: Oct 28, 2017 18:25:02 GMT -7
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Post by speedydave on Feb 12, 2018 9:56:46 GMT -7
That is ugly. I would take to Yamaha and let them fix it.
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steves
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Registered: Jan 22, 2018 18:30:53 GMT -7
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Post by steves on Feb 12, 2018 9:57:22 GMT -7
I see two pics just fine, but next time try using our button that says "add image to post". Ah, I was using the "insert image" button in the middle.
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steves
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Posts: 41
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Registered: Jan 22, 2018 18:30:53 GMT -7
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Post by steves on Feb 12, 2018 10:05:00 GMT -7
That is ugly. I would take to Yamaha and let them fix it. Believe me, if I had a way to get it to a dealer, I would. Without a transporter for it, until I get a filter on it and oil in it, the bike isn't going far.
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Post by papawheelie on Feb 12, 2018 10:21:03 GMT -7
Yeah, you’re being too forgiving when you say that it takes a “keen eye” to see the messed up threads resulting from that oil filter being torqued on there so tight. That’s ugly. I had wondered if the manufacturer installs the original oil filter at time of build, or if the retail dealer installs it at time of “dealer assembly”. Either way, I would absolutely let Yamaha/dealer fix this issue for you, including transport. Torquing down the oil filter like that is just a silly, ridiculous sin that the customer should not have to deal with. Maybe the onus for dealing with these problems is on us, when we choose to perform our own maintenance, rather than allowing/paying the dealer to do it? I don’t know. I’d certainly go back to the dealer, though, to express my frustration, with the expectation that they make it right for me.
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speedydave
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Posts: 53
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Registered: Oct 28, 2017 18:25:02 GMT -7
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Post by speedydave on Feb 12, 2018 11:58:11 GMT -7
I'm guessing either it was cross threaded or bad threads on the adapter or filter.
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steves
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Registered: Jan 22, 2018 18:30:53 GMT -7
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Post by steves on Feb 12, 2018 12:49:06 GMT -7
I'm guessing either it was cross threaded . . . Yup, that's what it looks like to me.
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steves
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Registered: Jan 22, 2018 18:30:53 GMT -7
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Post by steves on Feb 12, 2018 13:00:35 GMT -7
Yeah, you’re being too forgiving when you say that it takes a “keen eye” to see the messed up threads resulting from that oil filter being torqued on there so tight. That’s ugly. I had wondered if the manufacturer installs the original oil filter at time of build, or if the retail dealer installs it at time of “dealer assembly”. Either way, I would absolutely let Yamaha/dealer fix this issue for you, including transport. Torquing down the oil filter like that is just a silly, ridiculous sin that the customer should not have to deal with. Maybe the onus for dealing with these problems is on us, when we choose to perform our own maintenance, rather than allowing/paying the dealer to do it? I don’t know. I’d certainly go back to the dealer, though, to express my frustration, with the expectation that they make it right for me. I spoke to the General Manager at the dealer this morning and sent him the pictures I posted here. He said what I assumed to be true: bikes are delivered to the dealer with the filter in place and the engine full of oil. The miserable job of removing the cross-threaded filter is behind me, so my main concern now is getting back on the road ASAP. That union bolt is a $10 part (the dealer seems willing to pay for), so, assuming no special tools are needed to remove or install the union bolt, I think it'll be fastest and most convenient to have the dealer overnight the part to me, then install it myself.
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Post by heathhudnall on Feb 12, 2018 14:56:49 GMT -7
Yeah, you’re being too forgiving when you say that it takes a “keen eye” to see the messed up threads resulting from that oil filter being torqued on there so tight. That’s ugly. I had wondered if the manufacturer installs the original oil filter at time of build, or if the retail dealer installs it at time of “dealer assembly”. Either way, I would absolutely let Yamaha/dealer fix this issue for you, including transport. Torquing down the oil filter like that is just a silly, ridiculous sin that the customer should not have to deal with. Maybe the onus for dealing with these problems is on us, when we choose to perform our own maintenance, rather than allowing/paying the dealer to do it? I don’t know. I’d certainly go back to the dealer, though, to express my frustration, with the expectation that they make it right for me. I spoke to the General Manager at the dealer this morning and sent him the pictures I posted here. He said what I assumed to be true: bikes are delivered to the dealer with the filter in place and the engine full of oil. The miserable job of removing the cross-threaded filter is behind me, so my main concern now is getting back on the road ASAP. That union bolt is a $10 part (the dealer seems willing to pay for), so, assuming no special tools are needed to remove or install the union bolt, I think it'll be fastest and most convenient to have the dealer overnight the part to me, then install it myself. When I bought my bike, they told me that the bikes go on the floor with no fluids. I was concerned that the bike may have been test ridden. They asured me only by the dealer before sale...to me. The bike had 6 miles.
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Post by evitzee on Feb 12, 2018 15:24:15 GMT -7
I still can't see the pics, either on my desktop or tablet. I always thought the bikes were shipped with all fluids intact, partly in order to prevent some guy at a dealership prepping the bike and firing it up with no oil in the crankcase. Certainly the oil filter is a factory installed item.
If I was the OP I would be cautious of installing this new union bolt yourself, do you have the right fitting on your torque wrench to install it to 70 Nm? This is a critical item and I would be concerned that proper oil flow is being maintained by proper installation, I wouldn't want to think of having a serious engine problem down the road and having to convince the dealer it wasn't my fault. In my view the dealer should transport your bike to their shop at their expense and install the new part under warranty. My dealer would have no issue doing that in a circumstance like this. I had an issue with the throttle on my bike soon after I got it (return spring issue on the grip) and when I called the dealer about it they wanted to make sure I could safely ride it down to their shop. If I couldn't they would come pick it up. Your dealer should be the one to fix this factory cock up.
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Post by heathhudnall on Feb 12, 2018 17:54:17 GMT -7
I still can't see the pics, either on my desktop or tablet. I always thought the bikes were shipped with all fluids intact, partly in order to prevent some guy at a dealership prepping the bike and firing it up with no oil in the crankcase. Certainly the oil filter is a factory installed item. If I was the OP I would be cautious of installing this new union bolt yourself, do you have the right fitting on your torque wrench to install it to 70 Nm? This is a critical item and I would be concerned that proper oil flow is being maintained by proper installation, I wouldn't want to think of having a serious engine problem down the road and having to convince the dealer it wasn't my fault. In my view the dealer should transport your bike to their shop at their expense and install the new part under warranty. My dealer would have no issue doing that in a circumstance like this. I had an issue with the throttle on my bike soon after I got it (return spring issue on the grip) and when I called the dealer about it they wanted to make sure I could safely ride it down to their shop. If I couldn't they would come pick it up. Your dealer should be the one to fix this factory cock up. It's very possible the salesman was feeding me crap on that. I have no proof.
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ikranmakto
Junior Member
Posts: 90
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Registered: Dec 1, 2017 23:13:03 GMT -7
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Post by ikranmakto on Feb 12, 2018 22:01:24 GMT -7
Yep, still no pics here either.
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steves
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Registered: Jan 22, 2018 18:30:53 GMT -7
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Post by steves on Feb 13, 2018 9:26:53 GMT -7
Yep, still no pics here either. How about now?
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