kratosfz10
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Post by kratosfz10 on Jan 20, 2018 20:39:50 GMT -7
The ticking is bothering me, even if it is considered "normal". I've looked at videos, but the timing covers on the R1's I saw looked different than the FZ-10. Is the procedure still the same for keeping tension on the chain while doing the install? The FZ-10 cover looks smaller and has the oil delivery pipe attached, is there enough room once the cover is removed to follow the procedure found on the graves site? www.gravesport.com/content/instructions/CMY-13R1-PCT.pdf |
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av8er
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If my bike could travel at the speed of light, would my headlights work?
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Post by av8er on Jan 21, 2018 7:50:58 GMT -7
The ticking is bothering me, even if it is considered "normal". I've looked at videos, but the timing covers on the R1's I saw looked different than the FZ-10. Is the procedure still the same for keeping tension on the chain while doing the install? The FZ-10 cover looks smaller and has the oil delivery pipe attached, is there enough room once the cover is removed to follow the procedure found on the graves site? www.gravesport.com/content/instructions/CMY-13R1-PCT.pdfI have both an 15R1 and the FZ and after comparing, I believe the covers and stock cam chain tensioner are identical. Both have no issues so have not had the need to pull either but would guess the procedures are the same. |
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kratosfz10
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Post by kratosfz10 on Jan 21, 2018 7:58:37 GMT -7
The ticking is bothering me, even if it is considered "normal". I've looked at videos, but the timing covers on the R1's I saw looked different than the FZ-10. Is the procedure still the same for keeping tension on the chain while doing the install? The FZ-10 cover looks smaller and has the oil delivery pipe attached, is there enough room once the cover is removed to follow the procedure found on the graves site? www.gravesport.com/content/instructions/CMY-13R1-PCT.pdfI have both an 15R1 and the FZ and after comparing, I believe the covers and stock cam chain tensioner are identical. Both have no issues so have not had the need to pull either but would guess the procedures are the same. Thanks for the info av8er, that's good news. |
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Post by papawheelie on Jan 21, 2018 10:32:35 GMT -7
I look forward to hearing more, if you decide to install the manual tensioner. Guys who have done it, seem to be happy with the result.
The ticking bothers me too, even if (like you say) it is normal. I am considering waiting until the one year warranty is expired before messing with it.
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kratosfz10
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Post by kratosfz10 on Jan 21, 2018 12:50:55 GMT -7
I look forward to hearing more, if you decide to install the manual tensioner. Guys who have done it, seem to be happy with the result. The ticking bothers me too, even if (like you say) it is normal. I am considering waiting until the one year warranty is expired before messing with it. My girlfriend had an 06 Kawasaki ZX6 636, which had the same tick. It too was considered to be the normal "kawi" tick. I installed an APE manual cct and it did completely remove the ticking. I'm guessing this would completely remove the "yami" tick as well. I do have the graves cct, will post back after I install it, just not sure when I will do the install. |
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Post by clayton on Mar 21, 2018 14:44:05 GMT -7
I look forward to hearing more, if you decide to install the manual tensioner. Guys who have done it, seem to be happy with the result. The ticking bothers me too, even if (like you say) it is normal. I am considering waiting until the one year warranty is expired before messing with it. My girlfriend had an 06 Kawasaki ZX6 636, which had the same tick. It too was considered to be the normal "kawi" tick. I installed an APE manual cct and it did completely remove the ticking. I'm guessing this would completely remove the "yami" tick as well. I do have the graves cct, will post back after I install it, just not sure when I will do the install. Any updates on the install yet? I’m looking at possibly doing this as the ticking/clattering sound on my 2018 bothers me |
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Post by heathhudnall on Mar 21, 2018 15:00:46 GMT -7
I'm curious about this as well.
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kratosfz10
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Post by kratosfz10 on Mar 21, 2018 15:49:20 GMT -7
I haven't installed mine yet.
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uknixter
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Post by uknixter on Mar 21, 2018 20:18:38 GMT -7
Also interested in results . I've seen a lot of Kawi's with the same annoyance fixed.
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owle
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Post by owle on Mar 22, 2018 2:05:06 GMT -7
I'm curious about this as well. And another who is curious about this as well, each time i come across another MT-10 i want to hear the engine to compare "ticks". I have by and large convinced my self that all is normal with my tick, but i cant stop listening to it every time i start the engine. It has replaced my obsession with clutch rumble on a previous bike, so a tick free bike "sounds" good to me ...... (Pun intended) |
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Mar 22, 2018 3:05:05 GMT -7
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Post by evitzee on Mar 22, 2018 5:08:44 GMT -7
I've never noticed a tick but with ear plugs and full face helmet I'm not sure I would. And when sailing along at anything over 40 mph you certainly aren't going to hear any tick. Take the stethoscope off and ride.
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owle
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Post by owle on Mar 22, 2018 9:09:55 GMT -7
I've never noticed a tick but with ear plugs and full face helmet I'm not sure I would. And when sailing along at anything over 40 mph you certainly aren't going to hear any tick. Take the stethoscope off and ride. I'm happy that you are tick free, good for you ..... i will check my ears for stethoscopes before each and every ride ..... Here's hoping that your advice works. |
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kratosfz10
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Post by kratosfz10 on Jun 23, 2018 9:25:34 GMT -7
Well, I went ahead and changed out the cam chain tensioner today, not as bad as I thought it was going to be.  I followed this video: There are differences on the newer 2015+ bikes, as the pin pointed out in the video that can possibly come out when you pull the cover is denoted in my pic by the red arrow. The pin on the left, which is the one in the video that was likely to come out, didn't seem to move at all, so it may no longer be a removable pin. There were also no markings on the sprocket itself, but I noticed the arrow as shown by one of my yellow arrows, so I rotated the the crank until I saw the corresponding mark and lined them up, I am assuming that is TDC. I had to loosen the two bottom bolts of the oil pipe (white arrows) in order to get enough movement to free the pipe from the timing cover. Ended up having to remove one of the bolts so it could pivot. (you will get a little oil drainage, so be ready for that) I used a screwdriver to keep pressure on the chain, just as the video showed and I had no issues and the ticking is now gone on acceleration, with a little hint of ticking on slower speed decel. I also used the method in the video for adjustment, so I'm not 100% confident that it isn't too tight. I now hear a very slight whirring sound when I give it throttle, which might be an indication of it being too tight. (I only hear the whirring sound when I am standing next to the bike and give it some throttle. It isn't loud enough to hear while riding) A long T-Handle hex key will make the installation of the cam chain tensioner bolts much easier. A wrench with a deep offset will also make it easier when you adjust the cam chain tensioner. You'll have to use a small wrench to hold the actual adjuster bolt while using the wrench with the offset to tighten the locking nut. I did use a new cam chain tensioner gasket, just because I ended up ordering one when I bought the CCT, but likely wouldn't have been necessary. I did not use a new timing cover gasket, with the bike being so new, it came apart cleanly, so I didn't see the need. No oil leaks after a few test rides. Here are the torque specs for the bolts I removed. Cam Chain Tensioner bolts: 7.2 lb-ft Oil Pipe: 7.2 lb-ft Timing Cover: 8.7 lb-ft |
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Post by heathhudnall on Jun 24, 2018 12:08:32 GMT -7
Well, I went ahead and changed out the cam chain tensioner today, not as bad as I thought it was going to be. I followed this video: There are differences on the newer 2015+ bikes, as the pin pointed out in the video that can possibly come out when you pull the cover is denoted in my pic by the red arrow. The pin on the left, which is the one in the video that was likely to come out, didn't seem to move at all, so it may no longer be a removable pin. There were also no markings on the sprocket itself, but I noticed the arrow as shown by one of my yellow arrows, so I rotated the the crank until I saw the corresponding mark and lined them up, I am assuming that is TDC. I had to loosen the two bottom bolts of the oil pipe (white arrows) in order to get enough movement to free the pipe from the timing cover. Ended up having to remove one of the bolts so it could pivot. (you will get a little oil drainage, so be ready for that) I used a screwdriver to keep pressure on the chain, just as the video showed and I had no issues and the ticking is now gone on acceleration, with a little hint of ticking on slower speed decel. I also used the method in the video for adjustment, so I'm not 100% confident that it isn't too tight. I now hear a very slight whirring sound when I give it throttle, which might be an indication of it being too tight. (I only hear the whirring sound when I am standing next to the bike and give it some throttle. It isn't loud enough to hear while riding) A long T-Handle hex key will make the installation of the cam chain tensioner bolts much easier. A wrench with a deep offset will also make it easier when you adjust the cam chain tensioner. You'll have to use a small wrench to hold the actual adjuster bolt while using the wrench with the offset to tighten the locking nut. I did use a new cam chain tensioner gasket, just because I ended up ordering one when I bought the CCT, but likely wouldn't have been necessary. I did not use a new timing cover gasket, with the bike being so new, it came apart cleanly, so I didn't see the need. No oil leaks after a few test rides. Here are the torque specs for the bolts I removed. Cam Chain Tensioner bolts: 7.2 lb-ft Oil Pipe: 7.2 lb-ft Timing Cover: 8.7 lb-ft Thanks for the write up. |
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Post by clayton on Jun 24, 2018 19:19:18 GMT -7
So did it do away with the tick?
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kratosfz10
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Post by kratosfz10 on Jun 25, 2018 4:21:57 GMT -7
So did it do away with the tick? Yes, the tick on acceleration is gone, but I can still hear a slight tick during low speed decel. This may just mean that it needs to be slightly tighter. It's a massive improvement vs stock, and now, at least I know for sure all the ticking noise was related to the stock cam chain tensioner. |
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kratosfz10
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Post by kratosfz10 on Jul 29, 2018 11:27:28 GMT -7
Update
It seems that a significant amount of tick has returned, still no where near as loud as with the the stock CCT, but enough that I would call it significant. I had noticed it creeping back in even when riding with my helmet on. So today I played around with the CCT just to see how far in I had to turn if for the tick to completely go away.
Turns out, no matter how far I turned it in, the tick didn't seem to change. I was doing this while the bike was idling and at operating temperature. At idle the tick is very very slight, so I figured I would at least be able to hear a difference. I turned it in far enough to start hearing a whirring sound and feel a significant amount of resistance, so to me that meant it was too far and I definitely should have heard a change in the ticking sound by that point. I didn't ride the bike that way, as I didn't want to take a chance at damaging something, so I backed it out, then turned it back in as far as I could by hand, then gave it another 1/4 turn and locked it down (like the procedure in the video, but this time I did it with the bike running). With a helmet on, it's not near as noticeable as stock, so I know it's better, but still there, none the less.
I wonder if there is something else causing the ticking that taking the slack out of the cam chain doesn't necessarily resolve which is why the tick is so noticeable on these bike to begin with. Strange that it seemed to quiet down initially, I don't think it is an issue with the valves, as the ticking sound sounds exactly the same as what it did before I installed the manual CCT.
At least in my case, now the only thing the manual CCT is good for is just the security of knowing it can't release the tension like the stock automatic tensioner if it fails. I can't say it's worth the cost, since there is still enough of a tick left to annoy me.
If anyone else has installed a manual CCT, I'd be interested to hear your results after having the CCT installed for a few hundred miles or so.
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nico
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Post by nico on Sept 6, 2018 18:46:30 GMT -7
Hi kratosfz10, thank you for sharing youe experience. I too have recently installed a CCT. I went with the APE Pro manual CCT.
Before beginning with the job I tried to get as much information on proper positioning of the crankshaft in relation to where the cam lobes were positioned. This was stressed as being a critical step before removing the factory CCT. The reason for this is to remove as much loading of the camshafts as possible so that when the tension is removed from the cam chain it is to prevent either of the two cams from moving thus skipping a tooth in one direction or the other... basically it is to minimize the cams from moving and screwing up the cam timing!
I came across two schools of practice on this topic. The first being crankshaft at TDC compression and the other being TDC on valve overlap. I went with TDC compression because that seemed the most popular method... The Graves CCT installation instructions don't even specify TDC, which to me was completely ridiculous!
For the most part, I followed kratosfz10's instructions but used a different method for finding TDC compression. On the left side - generator cover there are two plugs. One of them is a 14mm hex and the other is a 5mm hex. I removed both of these plugs. Under the plug with the 14mm hex is a 19mm bolt wich is basically the end of the crankshaft. Under the 5mm hex plug is a view to what I belive is the generator rotor. It took me a while to figure out what exactly was going on under this plug but eventually I discoverd marks on the rotor that aligned with marks cut into the sides of the 5mm plug hole.
So with a 19mm deep socket and ratchet I turned the 19mm bolt counter clockwise while at the same time looking into 5mm hex plug. The following marks became visible as I rotated the crank: "K|" or "V|", "T|", "3|", "2|", "4|". The marks were extemely small and difficult to make out, which is why I couldn't tell if the first mark was a K or a V, but I belive that these marks indicated the firing order of the engine and when aligned with mark under the 5mm hex plug also indicated which piston was at TDC (don't know what the "K|" is other than some degree before TDC ("T|")).
I hadn't removed the spark plugs so you could definitely feel when on TDC compression or TDC overlap. So to make a long story short, I aligned the "T|" with the hole and then followed kratosfz10's steps.
In my case I was fine with the valve ticking that these engines make but in addition to valve ticking I was experiencing a type of tapping sound after getting hot that I couldn't stand. I figured I'd roll the dice and install a manual CCT and if the tapping sound went away great and if it remained unchanged, well at least I had a more reliable CCT. It turns out that it did eliminate the tapping... the valve ticking is still there but I'm okay with that!
I adjusted by turning the CCT main screw in until I felt resistence and proceded to rotate the engine counter clockwise from the left side with 19mm socket and ratchet while at the same time turning the main screw clockwise until I couldn't turn it with my fingers anymore. At that point I turned it a half turn counter clockwise and locked it down. According to APE this is the correct amout of chain tension.
Ride report - tapping gone, valve ticking still there, peace of mind knowing my CCT setting won't change but keep in mind to check every 5000 miles or so, due to chain stretch.
I hope this helps someone on the fence about installing a manual CCT. I was a bit nervous about attempting this but after having done it, it wasn't that difficult... just take your time doing it!
One final thing to mention is that once the factory CCT backs out of its bore, you will not be able to re-install it. It extends and I have no idea how to get it to retract!
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jdg326
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Post by jdg326 on May 16, 2019 9:35:12 GMT -7
I have a 2018 mt10 I bought it brand new at first I didn't notice the ticking noise but I think it was there, so I took it to the dealer and had them put a new tensioner on and same problem, then I bought the ape manual tensioner installed it and exactly the same noise, I have 2500 miles on the bike now. I tightened my exhaust manifold thinking maybe that could be it be nope. I'm thinking a valve adjustment but if everyone has the same problem maybe I'll save my money. Also my bike gets pretty hot 230 degrees at times I wonder if anyone else has the same problem.
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