slangblades
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Post by slangblades on Jun 17, 2020 1:16:34 GMT -7
Is this reccomended? What are the down sides? I have heard it is good so you dont use up your brakes but on the other hand, ive heard it is bad for the engine. If it is alright to do, does it just come down to good rev matching?
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jsutherman
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Post by jsutherman on Jun 17, 2020 6:46:27 GMT -7
Is this a serious question? Rev match, don't ride the clutch, and don't shift down 3 gears from 100 mph. You (and the bike) will be fine.
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slangblades
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Post by slangblades on Jun 17, 2020 19:50:35 GMT -7
Is this a serious question? Rev match, don't ride the clutch, and don't shift down 3 gears from 100 mph. You (and the bike) will be fine. Of course. I would not have asked if it wasn't... Thanks. Yeah I combine engine braking with using my brakes... rev match the gear on the way down and ease the throttle to a lower rpm. Tho trying not to rely on it as much as the brakes as im still not quite sure how engine braking, even with rev matching, will affect the engine in the long run. Keep in mind... a week ago I had never even ridden a motorcycle, period. Im trying to learn as much as possible. MSF class is on July 4th and 5th. Should help me learn quite a bit more. |
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jsutherman
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Registered: Mar 24, 2018 9:00:53 GMT -7
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Post by jsutherman on Jun 17, 2020 20:22:09 GMT -7
Is this a serious question? Rev match, don't ride the clutch, and don't shift down 3 gears from 100 mph. You (and the bike) will be fine. Of course. I would not have asked if it wasn't... Thanks. Yeah I combine engine braking with using my brakes... rev match the gear on the way down and ease the throttle to a lower rpm. Tho trying not to rely on it as much as the brakes as im still not quite sure how engine braking, even with rev matching, will affect the engine in the long run. Keep in mind... a week ago I had never even ridden a motorcycle, period. Im trying to learn as much as possible. MSF class is on July 4th and 5th. Should help me learn quite a bit more. Gotcha. Didn't know we had a brand new rider here. Sometimes, I don't even use the brakes. This bike has a good amount of decel under engine braking. Depends on the situation of course.... |
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Post by rracerfz10 on Jun 18, 2020 0:12:17 GMT -7
Did you get an MT-10 as your first bike? Yes engine braking is perfectly safe as long as you’re keeping the engine in a safe rev range. Like dude said earlier, don’t downshift to 2nd at 100mph lol.
If this is your first bike plllllllllllease be careful and respect it. This thing can be a monster and WILL bite you if you’re not careful and don’t know what you’re doing.
If you need any help or have any questions at all no matter how silly you might think they are please feel free to ask me or someone on here.
The motorcycling community is awesome and most of us will gladly help in any way we can.
Welcome be safe and have fun.
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Post by RedAndBlack on Jun 18, 2020 13:40:56 GMT -7
Edit: I might've misinterpreted OP here as wondering if he should reduce engine braking when in reality he was more questioning what it is and how it relates to slowing the bike down. My bad!!!!
Ok...I don't want to sound like an asshole here. I'm very supportive of each and everyone being responsible for them to decide what they think is best for them and what they think they can handle as far as their first bike is concerned. But I am a little concerned on what people may be telling you or getting into your head if your first choice of a motorcycle was a 1000cc FZ10 and one of your concerns as a new rider is engine braking. Engine braking is something that is messed with at the racer level and considered at the advanced track riding level (at least in my experience and opinion). It is nowhere near a consideration for a new rider. So I'm very concerned what you're hearing from whoever about engine braking vs stuff that you need to learn first. So I'm not going to disrespect you, or tell you to sell the bike, or talk you out of it. I'm going to try to set you up for success. There is an infamous video out there of a rider in the canyons/mountains of LA with shitty form, driving on the lowest setting of traction control, and driving his FZ-10 off of a cliff, almost killing himself. The FZ/MT-10 by all means is a SUPERSPORT bike, not necessarily by definition, but by capability. My advice if you continue down the path with the FZ-10. Keep the highest level of traction control on, keep the power mode at its lowest (it controls the throttle response, doesn't limit power level). I don't give a shit what anybody tells you, minus you getting some serious training over the next year or so, this bike will indefinitely be more than you can handle for at least a year or two and very likely, much much longer. Practice braking. MSF is going to tell you that braking in a corner is not recommended. This is bullshit. Part of your weekly routine should be going to a parking lot and practicing emergency braking. Braking in turns, braking in straight lines, stopping as fast as you can. etc. How do you measure your braking skill? As a new rider, you will get this fear as you approach traffic lights that are "stale" green. You will be worried at what point do you have to blast threw the changing yellow and red light vs try to brake for the light. When this worry goes away and you have the confidence that you can completely stop the bike without laying it down or running the red light at any speed, I'd say your MINIMALLY sufficient at braking skill. You have so much to learn. Countersteering, braking, trail braking, rev matching, proper apex, throttle control, corner entry and exit, gear selection vs RPM and peak torque. SO MUCH MORE TO LEARN. OP, I am serious. I worry about you. I am not an expert trainer but I am an advanced level track rider. If you have any questions at anytime, feel free to reach out. |
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pc1978
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Post by pc1978 on Jun 18, 2020 14:49:15 GMT -7
No problem with engine braking.
I like using engine braking to slow down.
Don’t get me wrong, I still use my front brakes a lot but like to use the engine also to slow me down also.
I doing most of my slowing when coming up to a stop with the engine and downshifting through the gears (unless it is a quick stop) and use the brakes for the final stopping power.
Just have the brake lever covered in case it’s needed quickly.
Also, remember if there is a car behind you and you are slowing quite a bit without the brakes your brake light isn’t activated.
I always tap (or barely depress) the rear brake in this case so the car behind is aware and can see the brake light.
I have a 20ft box truck (diesel) with a jake brake. Not the same thing as gas engine braking, but additional slowing power also that doesn’t come from the brakes.
Even in my 4Runner (automatic) I am always popping it from Drive to 4 (basically shifts out of overdrive), when wanting to use the engine to slow me down some.
But as was mentioned above, a lot of other things to learn and skills to develop that I would prioritize.
Good video related to your question:
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Post by rracerfz10 on Jun 18, 2020 16:17:40 GMT -7
Let me clarify my earlier statement. Do not use only engine braking to slow yourself! Use your brakes and when you advance use your brakes in conjunction with engine braking.
Using engine braking to scrub speed by its self is an advanced technique and should not be one of the first skills you try and master. I’ve been riding sport bikes for over 20 years and I forget that some things that are just second nature to me at this point are skills I’ve developed over decades.
Be careful and respect this bike. Realize it’ll take a long time for you to master it but first you need to master yourself. What I mean by that is riding a motorcycle takes learning how to overcome instincts that in a car work but absolutely can get you hurt on a bike.
For example, if you’re in a turn and you’re going a bit to fast in a car you can get on the brakes most times and be ok. On a bike if you hit the brakes the bike will stand up and stop turning (bikes tirnby leaning) and then you WILL NOT make the turn. Rafa Kieth Code’s book A Twist if The Wrist and watch the video of the same name on YouTube.
Having said that you can’t just read a book and get good. You have to practice. Motorcycling is a marathon not a sprint. It’ll take serious time to build your skill level.
One last tip. Ride with other people who are responsible but more skilled than you. Watch them ask questions but ride your own ride, don’t try and keep up or take corners at a speed you’re not comfortable with. It’ll come just take your time and you will be rewarded with a life time of fantastic experiences.
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Post by achrista on Jun 18, 2020 18:52:33 GMT -7
Ok...I don't want to sound like an asshole here. I'm very supportive of each and everyone being responsible for them to decide what they think is best for them and what they think they can handle as far as their first bike is concerned. But I am a little concerned on what people may be telling you or getting into your head if your first choice of a motorcycle was a 1000cc FZ10 and one of your concerns as a new rider is engine braking. Engine braking is something that is messed with at the racer level and considered at the advanced track riding level (at least in my experience and opinion). It is nowhere near a consideration for a new rider. So I'm very concerned what you're hearing from whoever about engine braking vs stuff that you need to learn first. So I'm not going to disrespect you, or tell you to sell the bike, or talk you out of it. I'm going to try to set you up for success. There is an infamous video out there of a rider in the canyons/mountains of LA with shitty form, driving on the lowest setting of traction control, and driving his FZ-10 off of a cliff, almost killing himself. The FZ/MT-10 by all means is a SUPERSPORT bike, not necessarily by definition, but by capability. My advice if you continue down the path with the FZ-10. Keep the highest level of traction control on, keep the power mode at its lowest (it controls the throttle response, doesn't limit power level). I don't give a shit what anybody tells you, minus you getting some serious training over the next year or so, this bike will indefinitely be more than you can handle for at least a year or two and very likely, much much longer. Practice braking. MSF is going to tell you that braking in a corner is not recommended. This is bullshit. Part of your weekly routine should be going to a parking lot and practicing emergency braking. Braking in turns, braking in straight lines, stopping as fast as you can. etc. How do you measure your braking skill? As a new rider, you will get this fear as you approach traffic lights that are "stale" green. You will be worried at what point do you have to blast threw the changing yellow and red light vs try to brake for the light. When this worry goes away and you have the confidence that you can completely stop the bike without laying it down or running the red light at any speed, I'd say your MINIMALLY sufficient at braking skill. You have so much to learn. Countersteering, braking, trail braking, rev matching, proper apex, throttle control, corner entry and exit, gear selection vs RPM and peak torque. SO MUCH MORE TO LEARN. OP, I am serious. I worry about you. I am not an expert trainer but I am an advanced level track rider. If you have any questions at anytime, feel free to reach out. I don't think engine braking is an advan ed concept by definition. There Are definitely advanced track applications as you've noted, but it's pretty reasonable for a new rider who has no experience with a manual to wonder why the bike slows down when the throttle rolls off as well as whether that's ok for the engine. Otherwise agree 100%. I'm glad I started on an Sv650. I even managed to drop that at speed and the power band is really forgiving. |
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Post by RedAndBlack on Jun 18, 2020 20:12:38 GMT -7
I don't think engine braking is an advan ed concept by definition. There Are definitely advanced track applications as you've noted, but it's pretty reasonable for a new rider who has no experience with a manual to wonder why the bike slows down when the throttle rolls off as well as whether that's ok for the engine. Otherwise agree 100%. I'm glad I started on an Sv650. I even managed to drop that at speed and the power band is really forgiving.
I might've misunderstood Op a little. I might've interpreted it as he was thinking of reducing the engine braking.
SV650 was my second bike! Great learner bike for sure!
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Post by evitzee on Jun 18, 2020 20:59:12 GMT -7
I doubt OP really knows what he is asking about engine braking, it's the last thing he should be worrying about. Picking an MT-10 as a first bike is bold. You need to take it easy, this is an expert's bike and can get you in a lot of trouble in an instant. Do not be lulled into thinking it is a pussycat. Take it easy until you take your MSF course which will only give you the basics. Practice your roadcraft and learn to use your front brakes, too many newbies rely too much on the rear brakes, the real stopping power is on the right lever (front brake). Take it easy, don't get overconfident.
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si
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Post by si on Jun 19, 2020 0:29:09 GMT -7
Keep us posted on your progress Learn to use your front wheel to slow you, the rear (CAN) get get you in the shit (IF) used at the wrong time Example chopping the throttle to slow you mid corner on a bit of wet may be bad but when your straight up and down your probably gonna stay that way  An advanced rider may use rear wheel braking mid corner to tighten his line but because your learning id say learn some other skills first like i dont know 1 throttle control 2 braking 3 cornering 4 reading traffic 5 staying alive
Watch some youtube vids on highsides and lowsides and youd be on your way to learning some respect Be safe happy riding |
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dkim213
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Post by dkim213 on Jun 19, 2020 1:19:57 GMT -7
FYI, it IS a terrible bike to start on.
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mrcdharwood
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Registered: Nov 4, 2017 1:39:49 GMT -7
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Post by mrcdharwood on Jun 19, 2020 2:38:29 GMT -7
Engine braking is merely moderating the bikes speed using the natural characteristics of the bike.
Modern bikes have much harsher engine braking than those that have carbs as one of the emission control tests is fuel used when off the throttle. As such a modern fuel injected bike cuts the fuel as soon as you come off the gas in order to pass this test. It's largely an EU homologation thing but as it's cheaper to make one bike for all markets you guys over the pond get the EU constraints.
It does nothing more to the engine than if you were feathering the throttle at the same revs.
Because the engine braking is so harsh on modern bikes you can ride without using the brakes much at all. An advanced road rider won't use their brakes much at all irrespective as they read the road well and use the throttle and engine braking to moderate the speed well in advance of any turn or hazard.
The MT10 has particularly harsh characteristics off the throttle which is why so many have the bike tuned. It corrects the lean fueling (again an emissions thing) that can cause long term damage to the engine but also adds fuel on deceleration to replicate the smoothness of the carbs and tames the harsh off throttle feeling.
Bare in mind too though that brakes work best when warm so grabbing the anchors in a time of need after not using them for a few miles will be very different to someone who is on the brakes more often.
Just ride your ride and if the engine braking works for you then great.
When you can invest in some training though. To learn more about what effects your inputs have on a bike, how the bike turns, the effects of altering a bike geometry, why we push left to initiate lean to turn right, how much grip you have, how hard you can actually brake etc. It's all quite fascinating and putting it all into practice in a safe environment will serve nothing but make you a better, smoother, faster and safer rider.
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Post by mindcrime79 on Jun 19, 2020 4:25:14 GMT -7
Not a beginner bike. Not a question someone with that bike should be asking. 🤦
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smokinfz10
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Post by smokinfz10 on Jun 19, 2020 6:24:16 GMT -7
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lizerdking
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Post by lizerdking on Jun 19, 2020 18:53:57 GMT -7
Op, please Find twist of the wrist 2 on YouTube and start with the that. Also David Hough proficient motorcycling is a must read.
Not to sound like a jerk, but there's almost Zero chance you doesn't wreck within the first year. The MT-10 is my 5th bike over 15 years of riding, I've Tally'd up at least 75k on 2 wheels including multiple trips to the dragon/mountains/etc.
I am still VERY intimidated by this machine, and your response sounded very conceited in that you are confident how quickly you can learn two wheels and then compared it to a stick shift car. Shifting is the least complicated thing about the physics of riding a bike. Also wet clutch is not the same as dry clutch, you don't use them the same way. You need to have a healthy fear with this hobby and it sounds like you're trying to justify how you are different than other beginner riders. You are not.
Please consider picking up a shitty used 250 and parking the 10 for a while, you'll cry less when you drop that and damage it, and have a better chance of living to learn from the experience.
Also, for a bit of comedy watch this.
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authentic17
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Post by authentic17 on Jun 19, 2020 22:06:28 GMT -7
I was going to write out a long comment explaining my thoughts but the bike is bought and others have already given warning, regardless of how it was received. The best I can say is consider what you've been told here and goodluck, safe riding.
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slangblades
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Post by slangblades on Jun 20, 2020 2:34:21 GMT -7
I disagree with it not being a good first bike. Because it is a 1000 cc bike, im automatically going to drive at 150 mph? No. The title of this thread is "engine breaking on the mt-10?" not, "Going top speed on the mt-10?". At the end of the day im learning more and more on this motorcycle, 1000cc or not. Just today i learned slow speed counter steering, which i think is not bad for 1 week of driving motorcycles. Normal speed counter steering required almost no practice as i do it quite often on bicycles. Same exact principle. The physics of a motorcycle is like driving a big heavy powerful bicycle.
Its not rocket science @some of you. Not conceited, im just not over complicating it, tho no hate on you if you do. Fear is good. But over complicating things because of that fear is NOT good. I wonder if some feel accomplished to be able to handle a 1000cc motorcycle and so frown on those who would not see it as much of a big deal as they do?(Because it really isnt). I couldn't care less what the bikes potential(top speed) is. I do not get hung up on the cc because im not out there going anywhere near that top speed so why would the cc matter to me at all? Im not worried about "How can i drive fast?", Im more worried about "How can i stop fast?". Im not actually worried about that btw, my stops are coming along very nicely and smooth from different speeds and am beginning to build some muscle memory.
A crash at 35mph on a 1000cc bike is the same as a crash at 35mph on a 250cc bike.
To those actually dropping some words of wisdom besides "Im irrationally fearful of fast vehicles and you should be too!", i truly appreciate your advice and will use whatever tips will aid me in becoming a responsible and skilled motorcyclist. Safety is my goal. speed is not my endgame. The freedom of driving a motorcycle safely and properly is. Ive heard, it is funner to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow. Im that 1% that is perfectly ok with driving a fast bike slow. I have the power to control my distance more because of that power, this is pretty reassuring, which makes riding even more fun and feel safer.
Again, being able to go fast doesnt make going fast a requirement.
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vk
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Registered: Apr 19, 2019 20:36:08 GMT -7
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Post by vk on Jun 20, 2020 5:21:30 GMT -7
Sounds like your heads in the right place OP. Been reading this forum for 2 yrs, obviously dont post much, but there is lots of experience with the bike on here. Dont imagine these guys are being offensive they just dont want to see you splattered into a windshield or off an overpass (yes that stuff happen, seen it myself)
Long as you respect any bike your steps ahead of lots of riders. This dude called fast Eddie has shit loads of instruction videos. It's called motojitsu. If you havent seen it check it out. Lots of parking lot drills etc. Guy is a little bit out there but a hell of a rider/instructor.
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