mtate
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Post by mtate on Jun 16, 2019 16:18:36 GMT -7
Went riding with a few buds this weekend and they ended up taking me to a road Iβve never ridden before and I was riding it harder than I should of. Got caught by a double apex and took a spill. Bike isnβt in to bad of shape. Few scratches here and there and a broken brake line. Hopefully will be good to ride next weekend!
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techsniffer
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Post by techsniffer on Jun 16, 2019 18:11:45 GMT -7
Sorry bout the bike, glad you're ok. I always sight a road before I'll get aggressive on it, I've seen too many people trying to go full tilt on a road they've never been on before and paying the price.
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dkim213
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Post by dkim213 on Jun 16, 2019 18:38:13 GMT -7
Glad youβre okay and thanks for uploading the video. Crash happened at approx 6:30.
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Post by evitzee on Jun 16, 2019 19:12:10 GMT -7
Glad you weren't injured. Would have expected a lot of damage on the right side.
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Post by RedAndBlack on Jun 17, 2019 10:13:38 GMT -7
Glad you're ok!
Gotta give you credit for sticking with the turn as best as you could. You could tell that you were fighting that reaction to stand it up, which is what a lot of riders do and which would've likely led to a much worse accident for you.
So props! You came damn close to saving it.
How's your trailbraking? Maybe something more you can work on?
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mtate
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Post by mtate on Jun 17, 2019 12:58:43 GMT -7
Glad you're ok! Gotta give you credit for sticking with the turn as best as you could. You could tell that you were fighting that reaction to stand it up, which is what a lot of riders do and which would've likely led to a much worse accident for you. So props! You came damn close to saving it. How's your trailbraking? Maybe something more you can work on? Thanks, I just really had no idea what to do, I wanted to try and stick it out the best I could but I also\ wanted to stand it up some so I could really get on the brakes. Unfortunately I was just going way to fast to come to a quick stop. Trailbraking is something I've started working on but I honestly don't do it enough to be extremely comfortable enough.
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dkim213
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Post by dkim213 on Jun 18, 2019 14:32:18 GMT -7
Iβve been watching this video a bunch of times trying to learn from it. I think throttle control may be the issue.
You can slow down the video to see your speed climb while youβre turning the bike. I believe that put you into a wide trajectory.
At the level 1 course at superbike school, they had us decouple steering inputs from throttle inputs. Roll off throttle, brake if needed, turn, spot apex, roll on throttle continuously to stabilize bike. If you mess up your line, roll off or maintain throttle, make steering input, then roll on throttle to stabilize.
This is their method of negotiating corners they taught for level 1.
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Post by RedAndBlack on Jun 18, 2019 15:23:25 GMT -7
Glad you're ok! Gotta give you credit for sticking with the turn as best as you could. You could tell that you were fighting that reaction to stand it up, which is what a lot of riders do and which would've likely led to a much worse accident for you. So props! You came damn close to saving it. How's your trailbraking? Maybe something more you can work on? Thanks, I just really had no idea what to do, I wanted to try and stick it out the best I could but I also\ wanted to stand it up some so I could really get on the brakes. Unfortunately I was just going way to fast to come to a quick stop. Trailbraking is something I've started working on but I honestly don't do it enough to be extremely comfortable enough.
I would consider upping your trailbraking skill as a possible answer to this. I'm fairly confident that in your situation, I could've kept that bike from even going over the double yellow, let alone crashing with my trailbraking ability. The myth of having to stand the bike up to brake is just that, it is a myth. If you can control your brake hand like your throttle hand, you can trailbrake any corner at any angle. And its a skill that has saved my ass time and time again.
It is definitely recommended to work at it at the track though. It is certainly an advanced skill that you want to have run off room if you do drive a bike in too deep.
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Post by evitzee on Jun 18, 2019 17:29:18 GMT -7
In many instances like this just using the simple look/lean/believe technique would have seen him through. We tend to give up on staying off the brakes and just leaning it over and let it roll through the curve. A modern sport bike can corner far more aggressively than we tthink. But too easy to analyze after the fact.
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Post by RedAndBlack on Jun 18, 2019 21:38:37 GMT -7
In many instances like this just using the simple look/lean/believe technique would have seen him through. We tend to give up on staying off the brakes and just leaning it over and let it roll through the curve. A modern sport bike can corner far more aggressively than we tthink. But too easy to analyze after the fact. This is some of the best advice I've ever gotten. Was told by one of the local track gurus that when you think you can't make it through the turn, look farther through the turn and lean it in a bit more. You will make it. So far it hasn't failed!
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mtate
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Post by mtate on Jun 19, 2019 6:20:54 GMT -7
Iβve been watching this video a bunch of times trying to learn from it. I think throttle control may be the issue. You can slow down the video to see your speed climb while youβre turning the bike. I believe that put you into a wide trajectory. At the level 1 course at superbike school, they had us decouple steering inputs from throttle inputs. Roll off throttle, brake if needed, turn, spot apex, roll on throttle continuously to stabilize bike. If you mess up your line, roll off or maintain throttle, make steering input, then roll on throttle to stabilize. This is their method of negotiating corners they taught for level 1. I was slowly rolling on throttle because I entered the turn slow, not knowing I should have been going half the speed to catch the second apex. I would love to go to superbike school though, it is just so damn expensive and not readily available.
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mtate
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Post by mtate on Jun 19, 2019 6:27:19 GMT -7
Thanks, I just really had no idea what to do, I wanted to try and stick it out the best I could but I also\ wanted to stand it up some so I could really get on the brakes. Unfortunately I was just going way to fast to come to a quick stop. Trailbraking is something I've started working on but I honestly don't do it enough to be extremely comfortable enough.
I would consider upping your trailbraking skill as a possible answer to this. I'm fairly confident that in your situation, I could've kept that bike from even going over the double yellow, let alone crashing with my trailbraking ability. The myth of having to stand the bike up to brake is just that, it is a myth. If you can control your brake hand like your throttle hand, you can trailbrake any corner at any angle. And its a skill that has saved my ass time and time again.
It is definitely recommended to work at it at the track though. It is certainly an advanced skill that you want to have run off room if you do drive a bike in too deep.
Definitely just have to take it as a learning experience. I have only been riding for 2 years and I have progressed rapidly but I still have a lot to learn and I am always open to taking constructive criticism. I'll definitely be practicing some mild trailbraking from here on out.
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maadi
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Post by maadi on Jul 5, 2019 18:44:05 GMT -7
Track days might be difficult to get at, but so very worth it. Try it, I promise it'll be worth the effort/cost!
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mtate
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Post by mtate on Jul 12, 2019 11:42:18 GMT -7
Track days might be difficult to get at, but so very worth it. Try it, I promise it'll be worth the effort/cost! I'd love to get into track days, they're just so damn costly especially for me. I'm tall and skinny so I need custom leathers, and I cannot find any boots to fit me
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 21:57:39 GMT -7
First of all, glad you're okay. Second of all, never think about proper training as expensive; fixing your bike will be more expensive than if you had taken a course at Superbike School (where everything is provided). And now imagine if you had hit a car head-on, and tell me if getting proper training is expensive. Didn't think so. He he. Just trying to change your thinking from expense, to investment . Anyway, as somebody already said, you could have easily made that curve without even crossing the yellow line, at the speed you were going, by just trailbraking initially. Once on maintenance throttle, you could have made the downshift, if you wanted to exit quicker. Your biggest mistake was the last downshift you made (which you botched too, as mentioned). NEVER execute a downshift in the middle of a curve when you're too hot (even with a QS); you don't want to upset the chassis in any way when you need maximum grip to make the corner. MUCH better to make the corner and botch the exit, than don't make the corner, right? Live and learn. Your second mistake was to lead in an unfamiliar road and at an aggressive pace, and without the skills to turn the bike at maximum lean, if needed, and to read the curves properly. Hey, if Superbike School (I'd recommend Nick Ienatsch instead, by the way) is out of the question soon, I highly recommend you buy Nick Ienatsch's book Sport Riding Techniques. It's excellent, and it'll teach you all the skills you need to know; you'll improve much quicker that way. But if you want to ride aggressively, I'd definitely do a track school when you have a chance, because it's a lot harder to improve on the streets without taking too many chances once you get to certain level. Oh, another excellent learning tool would be having communicators (Cardo, Sena) with a buddy who rides better, and can teach you on the fly. I did that with a friend, explaining everything I was doing while he followed me at the dragon and other awesome roads, and he improved a lot. I was also alerting my cousin of decreasing radius corners, debris, etc. First time I use that thing (Cardo Freecom4) as a communicator, and it was awesome. Finally, also kudos for having the balls to post your experience. I can tell you I made a similar mistake decades ago, also when riding in an unfamiliar road for the first time, not too aggressively, but more than I should, when I caught heavy sand on a blind corner, and down I went too. Back then there was no internet, I didn't know anybody who rode, there were no books, no riding schools that I knew of, so I had to learn on the fly, like you did. Just don't make the same mistake twice, and this will be a distant memory soon . Good luck brother.
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jsantoli
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Post by jsantoli on Aug 13, 2019 5:20:23 GMT -7
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mtate
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Post by mtate on Aug 14, 2019 11:45:41 GMT -7
First of all, glad you're okay. Second of all, never think about proper training as expensive; fixing your bike will be more expensive than if you had taken a course at Superbike School (where everything is provided). And now imagine if you had hit a car head-on, and tell me if getting proper training is expensive. Didn't think so. He he. Just trying to change your thinking from expense, to investment . Anyway, as somebody already said, you could have easily made that curve without even crossing the yellow line, at the speed you were going, by just trailbraking initially. Once on maintenance throttle, you could have made the downshift, if you wanted to exit quicker. Your biggest mistake was the last downshift you made (which you botched too, as mentioned). NEVER execute a downshift in the middle of a curve when you're too hot (even with a QS); you don't want to upset the chassis in any way when you need maximum grip to make the corner. MUCH better to make the corner and botch the exit, than don't make the corner, right? Live and learn. Your second mistake was to lead in an unfamiliar road and at an aggressive pace, and without the skills to turn the bike at maximum lean, if needed, and to read the curves properly. Hey, if Superbike School (I'd recommend Nick Ienatsch instead, by the way) is out of the question soon, I highly recommend you buy Nick Ienatsch's book Sport Riding Techniques. It's excellent, and it'll teach you all the skills you need to know; you'll improve much quicker that way. But if you want to ride aggressively, I'd definitely do a track school when you have a chance, because it's a lot harder to improve on the streets without taking too many chances once you get to certain level. Oh, another excellent learning tool would be having communicators (Cardo, Sena) with a buddy who rides better, and can teach you on the fly. I did that with a friend, explaining everything I was doing while he followed me at the dragon and other awesome roads, and he improved a lot. I was also alerting my cousin of decreasing radius corners, debris, etc. First time I use that thing (Cardo Freecom4) as a communicator, and it was awesome. Finally, also kudos for having the balls to post your experience. I can tell you I made a similar mistake decades ago, also when riding in an unfamiliar road for the first time, not too aggressively, but more than I should, when I caught heavy sand on a blind corner, and down I went too. Back then there was no internet, I didn't know anybody who rode, there were no books, no riding schools that I knew of, so I had to learn on the fly, like you did. Just don't make the same mistake twice, and this will be a distant memory soon . Good luck brother. Definitely learned a lot from this and it's already made me a better rider, just went back to the crash site this weekend so I could make the curve my b****. Was extremely nervous but it was something I had to overcome. I've easily watched and analyzed it over 1000 times, that's one of the reasons I uploaded it. And for the superbike school, even though it is pricey I would still love to do it. Just when I decide to do it I'm going to do the full 2 day camp. Unfortunately I can't afford a $3k weekend trip right now.
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jsantoli
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Post by jsantoli on Aug 14, 2019 13:27:09 GMT -7
I did the 2 day class. It was $2200 if you bring your own bike. Like stated previously, $2200 is worth every penny if it saves your bike or more importantly, your life. I was on the fence about it also but Iβm so glad I did it
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2019 21:06:55 GMT -7
just went back to the crash site this weekend so I could make the curve my b****. Ha ha. That's the spirit, brother. For now just get that book; it'll help you A LOT, even if you take a track school later, because you'll be riding better, and improve more. And yes, if you do a track school, definitely do a 2-day camp. I've done two, 2-day Superbike School camps, and never liked that much how it was taught, to be honest. So I also highly recommend doing the Yamaha school instead; it's a hair more expensive if you need to rent everything (which is included in the price at SS), but you'd learn what takes 2 camps at SS, so much cheaper at the end. And even cheaper, if you live close enough to a track where you could bring your own bike (not available at SS on 2-day camps). Hey, so what was the wallet damage to get your baby back to pre-crash form? Hopefully not too bad. Oh, and don't forget to replace your helmet if it hit the ground, which it probably did. Don't skimp on a helmet either . Take care.
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mtate
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Post by mtate on Aug 16, 2019 10:32:25 GMT -7
just went back to the crash site this weekend so I could make the curve my b****. Ha ha. That's the spirit, brother. For now just get that book; it'll help you A LOT, even if you take a track school later, because you'll be riding better, and improve more. And yes, if you do a track school, definitely do a 2-day camp. I've done two, 2-day Superbike School camps, and never liked that much how it was taught, to be honest. So I also highly recommend doing the Yamaha school instead; it's a hair more expensive if you need to rent everything (which is included in the price at SS), but you'd learn what takes 2 camps at SS, so much cheaper at the end. And even cheaper, if you live close enough to a track where you could bring your own bike (not available at SS on 2-day camps). Hey, so what was the wallet damage to get your baby back to pre-crash form? Hopefully not too bad. Oh, and don't forget to replace your helmet if it hit the ground, which it probably did. Don't skimp on a helmet either . Take care. I actually got out extremely lucky cost wise. My helmet has an extremely faint scratch about an inch long. Looks like a piece of hair, I'm not even sure it came from the crash! As for the bike, I just had to reset my front brake line and bleed it $20, Went ahead and replaced the side panels that say MT-10 on them because a clip broke on one side, so went with carbon fiber. $200 and that's it. I do have a crack in the plastic by the headlight so that will be getting replaced next, as for everything else on the bike, it came out pretty well, just some small scratches here and there on the exhaust and intake covers. Some people don't even notice it's been down until they get a second look.
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