Moto10
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Post by Moto10 on Mar 19, 2019 9:43:41 GMT -7
Hey All!
Within the next couple weeks I will pulling the trigger on the M4 and a flash tune. I wanted to reach out for any advice as this is the first bike I have ever had the ECU flashed (usually stick with stock). Just wondering if there is anything else I need to know, tips on removing the stock exhaust, recommendations on additional parts (block off plates), etc... I plan on calling 2WheelDyno this afternoon as I have a few questions with regards to what all the reflash accounts for.
Appreciate any tips or advice. Would also be interested to see how long some of you have been riding with the reflash ECU!
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superspirit
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Post by superspirit on Mar 19, 2019 15:05:07 GMT -7
I have the hindle exhaust and a 2wdw flash. My brothers bike is identical to mine but all stock. There is absolutely no difference in power. My brother weighs 80 lbs more than I do and the bikes stayed side by side in a all out race between us. Mine sounds much better though, but the performance gains for the money are not worth it IMO.
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jroc
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Post by jroc on Mar 19, 2019 17:08:17 GMT -7
I have the hindle exhaust and a 2wdw flash. My brothers bike is identical to mine but all stock. There is absolutely no difference in power. My brother weighs 80 lbs more than I do and the bikes stayed side by side in a all out race between us. Mine sounds much better though, but the performance gains for the money are not work it IMO. I'm assuming at least one of the following to be true: 1. Your brother's bike wasn't originally purchased in the U.S. 2. Your brother is a better rider 3. Your tune from 2WDW is not optimized
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superspirit
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Post by superspirit on Mar 19, 2019 17:34:41 GMT -7
Only option would be #3 my brother and I definitely equal in a straight highway run! And his was a us model.
I live all the way across the country from Nels, so I have to live with the mail order tune.
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Moto10
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Post by Moto10 on Mar 20, 2019 5:21:31 GMT -7
Only option would be #3 my brother and I definitely equal in a straight highway run! And his was a us model. I live all the way across the country from Nels, so I have to live with the mail order tune. I too live all the way across the country in North Carolina. I spoke with 2wDw yesterday with the questions I had and power increases. I am surprised to hear you say it made no difference. How long ago did you have your ECU flashed? Side question, he also told me the O2 sensors are no longer needed. Question to you guys is do you still have the sensors installed? If not, what did you use to cover the bike harness connector where the sensors used to be connected too?
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jroc
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Post by jroc on Mar 20, 2019 6:18:14 GMT -7
Removing stock exhaust and installing new will be pretty straight forward. I have the M4 3/4 exhaust with both stock O2 sensors removed. Although, I do have the FTECU Activetune O2 sensor plugged into the 18mm bung. O2 bung plugs: These plugs are kind of pricey for what they are, but I know they fit. I think any 12x1.25 stainless bolts should work. www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0041QCZ0W?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_pd_titleO2 electrical connector plugs: Here is another thread where folks discussed installing electrical plugs after removing stock O2 sensors. I think there might be other threads on this board for this topic too. Also, there's probably a plug available to use for the AIS connector if you decide to remove that fz10.org/thread/522/electrical-plug-fz-sensor-connectorYou can have AIS turned off in the flash. I think some folks leave AIS installed and just plug the airway between airbox and AIS. I went ahead and removed AIS, turned AIS off in the flash, plugged airway, and installed Graves blockoff plates. Here's a really helpful video (useful for any work that needs the gas tank/airbox removed): I've had mine flashed for ~2k miles, including a trackday at COTA. So, not very long. I would rate it as one of my favorite mods, but it has certainly cost a lot of time, some headaches, and >$700 to get it right. I really think Yamaha should have just shipped it like this. Instead, they give us the below neutered throttle map:
***Image came from Stoltec's site. I bought the bikeside flashing kit and Activetune from him. Helpful, knowledgeable vendor with great pricing stoltecmoto.com/shop/yamaha/fz-10/fz-10-mt-10-ft-ecu-flashing-kit/
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Moto10
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Post by Moto10 on Mar 20, 2019 8:10:03 GMT -7
Removing stock exhaust and installing new will be pretty straight forward. I have the M4 3/4 exhaust with both stock O2 sensors removed. Although, I do have the FTECU Activetune O2 sensor plugged into the 18mm bung. O2 bung plugs: These plugs are kind of pricey for what they are, but I know they fit. I think any 12x1.25 stainless bolts should work. www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0041QCZ0W?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_pd_titleO2 electrical connector plugs: Here is another thread where folks discussed installing electrical plugs after removing stock O2 sensors. I think there might be other threads on this board for this topic too. Also, there's probably a plug available to use for the AIS connector if you decide to remove that fz10.org/thread/522/electrical-plug-fz-sensor-connectorYou can have AIS turned off in the flash. I think some folks leave AIS installed and just plug the airway between airbox and AIS. I went ahead and removed AIS, turned AIS off in the flash, plugged airway, and installed Graves blockoff plates. Here's a really helpful video (useful for any work that needs the gas tank/airbox removed): I've had mine flashed for ~2k miles, including a trackday at COTA. So, not very long. I would rate it as one of my favorite mods, but it has certainly cost a lot of time, some headaches, and >$700 to get it right. I really think Yamaha should have just shipped it like this. Instead, they give us the below neutered throttle map:
***Image came from Stoltec's site. I bought the bikeside flashing kit and Activetune from him. Helpful, knowledgeable vendor with great pricing stoltecmoto.com/shop/yamaha/fz-10/fz-10-mt-10-ft-ecu-flashing-kit/Thanks for all the information and websites with additional parts I need to look into. Any idea if just leaving the O2 sensors installed after the flash and exhaust install will really cause any issue or have any affect? Just wondering if it is really necessary to completely remove them? I plan to have AIS turned off and will be installing the block off plates (looks “finished” IMO).
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superspirit
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Post by superspirit on Mar 20, 2019 9:06:20 GMT -7
This has been brought up before. Nels says if you leave them hooked up it causes a conflict in the tune. Even though they are turned off the pcm still tries to use them. That was the last I read on here about that. Every bike is different, to actually achieve more power on your bike, it should be tuned on the Dyno. Some bikes respond well to a preset mail order tune some don't.
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superspirit
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Post by superspirit on Mar 20, 2019 12:14:53 GMT -7
One thing I want to add to this conversation is that 2wdw has awesome customer service! I'm sure if Nels had my bike on a Dyno I'd be super happy with the results. I'm just not capable of getting it there.
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Moto10
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Post by Moto10 on Mar 20, 2019 12:20:51 GMT -7
One thing I want to add to this conversation is that 2wdw has awesome customer service! I'm sure if Nels had my bike on a Dyno I'd be super happy with the results. I'm just not capable of getting it there. completey agree! Had a good in-depth conversation yesterday with them. Answered all my questions and he said if I had anymore, to just give them another call.
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Deleted
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Registered: Apr 24, 2024 14:02:50 GMT -7
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2019 22:48:18 GMT -7
this is the first bike I have ever had the ECU flashed (usually stick with stock). May I ask why you want to flash this one? I really like it right out of the box (with just a Graves slip-on, which made no difference in fueling), plus even if I didn't, I'd at least leave it alone during the warranty. With the Graves, it's borderline loud already, so very happy the way it looks, performs, and rides. Maybe it's my good throttle control, but in STD mode, it's just about perfect for me: throttle responds instantly to blips, and the map is perfect for all riding conditions. It also helps to rest index and middle fingers on brake lever all the time to avoid throttle snatchiness. Finally, no need for more power IMO, even if a tune really adds any noticeable amount; it's a beast already, but to each his own, of course . Money would be better spent in rider training than making more power for the majority of riders, but maybe you're not one of them. He he. I'm going to another 2-day camp at Laguna Seca in a couple of weeks; need a refresher . Good luck with your mods.
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techsniffer
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Post by techsniffer on Mar 21, 2019 4:48:00 GMT -7
this is the first bike I have ever had the ECU flashed (usually stick with stock). May I ask why you want to flash this one? I really like it right out of the box (with just a Graves slip-on, which made no difference in fueling), plus even if I didn't, I'd at least leave it alone during the warranty. With the Graves, it's borderline loud already, so very happy the way it looks, performs, and rides. Maybe it's my good throttle control, but in STD mode, it's just about perfect for me: throttle responds instantly to blips, and the map is perfect for all riding conditions. It also helps to rest index and middle fingers on brake lever all the time to avoid throttle snatchiness. Finally, no need for more power IMO, even if a tune really adds any noticeable amount; it's a beast already, but to each his own, of course . Money would be better spent in rider training than making more power for the majority of riders, but maybe you're not one of them. He he. I'm going to another 2-day camp at Laguna Seca in a couple of weeks; need a refresher . Good luck with your mods. It's not just about more power, an ECU flash does many things for the bike. It smoothes out the throttle which makes for more predictable control, it helps the bike run cooler which is never a bad thing on anything mechanical and puts in place a fuel map that's far better than the default fuel mapping. And turns off the things that in reality are only there to help it meet certain emissions regulations but don't serve the bike or the rider well at all. Even a 100% stock bike would see gains from an ECU flash. As for rider training, aside from basic rider training courses, large portions of the US don't have access to advanced rider course, racing courses, stunt courses etc. My only options in my area are basic and advanced rider courses (I've done both) which consist of 100% of low-speed maneuvering and bike control, which really doesn't provide a lot of real-world application outside of some general technics because if you're riding there is a very high chance you're traveling at more than 15mph. And even those courses were from a Harley dealer which in many ways feels like more of a Harley sales experience rather than advanced riding information. $300 - $1800 for an ECU flash or Exhaust system + Flash is sometimes the only option we really have to increase performance or unlock the bikes hidden potential, not everyone has a life that allows for a cross country trip to a place that offers better rider training. In the end, it's our bikes and our choices on what we want out of the bike we bought. For me, well I pick up my MT-10 Friday and within the next week I'm going to put the Akra 3/4 exhaust on and send my ECU to 2WDW for a flash and ordering a Corbin seat, because thats exactly what I want out of my new ride. Does the MT-10 NEED this? No, it works fine stock, but will it work BETTER with it... Yes!
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Moto10
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Post by Moto10 on Mar 21, 2019 4:57:13 GMT -7
May I ask why you want to flash this one? I really like it right out of the box (with just a Graves slip-on, which made no difference in fueling), plus even if I didn't, I'd at least leave it alone during the warranty. With the Graves, it's borderline loud already, so very happy the way it looks, performs, and rides. Maybe it's my good throttle control, but in STD mode, it's just about perfect for me: throttle responds instantly to blips, and the map is perfect for all riding conditions. It also helps to rest index and middle fingers on brake lever all the time to avoid throttle snatchiness. Finally, no need for more power IMO, even if a tune really adds any noticeable amount; it's a beast already, but to each his own, of course . Money would be better spent in rider training than making more power for the majority of riders, but maybe you're not one of them. He he. I'm going to another 2-day camp at Laguna Seca in a couple of weeks; need a refresher . Good luck with your mods. It's not just about more power, an ECU flash does many things for the bike. It smoothes out the throttle which makes for more predictable control, it helps the bike run cooler which is never a bad thing on anything mechanical and puts in place a fuel map that's far better than the default fuel mapping. And turns off the things that in reality are only there to help it meet certain emissions regulations but don't serve the bike or the rider well at all. Even a 100% stock bike would see gains from an ECU flash. As for rider training, aside from basic rider training courses, large portions of the US don't have access to advanced rider course, racing courses, stunt courses etc. My only options in my area are basic and advanced rider courses (I've done both) which consist of 100% of low-speed maneuvering and bike control, which really doesn't provide a lot of real-world application outside of some general technics because if you're riding there is a very high chance you're traveling at more than 15mph. And even those courses were from a Harley dealer which in many ways feels like more of a Harley sales experience rather than advanced riding information. $300 - $1800 for an ECU flash or Exhaust system + Flash is sometimes the only option we really have to increase performance or unlock the bikes hidden potential, not everyone has a life that allows for a cross country trip to a place that offers better rider training. In the end, it's our bikes and our choices on what we want out of the bike we bought. For me, well I pick up my MT-10 Friday and within the next week I'm going to put the Akra 3/4 exhaust on and send my ECU to 2WDW for a flash and ordering a Corbin seat, because thats exactly what I want out of my new ride. Does the MT-10 NEED this? No, it works fine stock, but will it work BETTER with it... Yes! Couldn’t have said it better myself.
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Moto10
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Posts: 62
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Registered: Apr 11, 2017 17:22:23 GMT -7
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Post by Moto10 on Mar 21, 2019 5:22:05 GMT -7
this is the first bike I have ever had the ECU flashed (usually stick with stock). May I ask why you want to flash this one? I really like it right out of the box (with just a Graves slip-on, which made no difference in fueling), plus even if I didn't, I'd at least leave it alone during the warranty. With the Graves, it's borderline loud already, so very happy the way it looks, performs, and rides. Maybe it's my good throttle control, but in STD mode, it's just about perfect for me: throttle responds instantly to blips, and the map is perfect for all riding conditions. It also helps to rest index and middle fingers on brake lever all the time to avoid throttle snatchiness. Finally, no need for more power IMO, even if a tune really adds any noticeable amount; it's a beast already, but to each his own, of course . Money would be better spent in rider training than making more power for the majority of riders, but maybe you're not one of them. He he. I'm going to another 2-day camp at Laguna Seca in a couple of weeks; need a refresher . Good luck with your mods. The FZ10 is awesome, no doubt about that and I too ride mostly in standard mode to help smooth the throttle out as you mention. I also have a slip on Arrow that does sound nice as well. My bike is out of Yamaha warranty now, main reason why I left it alone for the most part. Now, I guess I just want to change it up a bit. I like the look of the low slung M4, I think it really adds to the whole naked street fighter look the FZ gives off. I do not have access to any sort of track to practice, nor is it really feasible to take my bike on a 2 day riding camp as you mentioned. My practice is actually riding on the street everyday. My FZ is my “fun” bike that I do not ride all the time. I ride my FJ09 everyday to work unless it’s down pouring or snow is on the ground. So this is merely an experience and learning thing for me as far as ECU flashing and exhaust goes. Anyways,I appreciate the input and advice!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2019 11:25:58 GMT -7
Just as a clarification, I DO NOT track my bike. Nor do my crappy town offer any kind of rider training. But I consider rider training an absolute must, especially with a powerful machine, but to each his own. Superbike School (and many others) provide the bike (a BMW S1000RR), and all gear, so you just show up. And in SB's case, they have several specialized bikes to explore the limits of braking, sliding, leaning, etc. Even one accident would be waaaay more than what rider training does, hence the priority I give it. More power doesn't do us any good if you don't know how to use it safely, but yeah, to each his own . Enjoy your new mods .
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jroc
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Post by jroc on Mar 21, 2019 11:50:43 GMT -7
Without a doubt, rider mod trumps anything we can bolt/flash onto our bikes.
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Moto10
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Post by Moto10 on Mar 21, 2019 12:28:11 GMT -7
Just as a clarification, I DO NOT track my bike. Nor do my crappy town offer any kind of rider training. But I consider rider training an absolute must, especially with a powerful machine, but to each his own. Superbike School (and many others) provide the bike (a BMW S1000RR), and all gear, so you just show up. And in SB's case, they have several specialized bikes to explore the limits of braking, sliding, leaning, etc. Even one accident would be waaaay more than what rider training does, hence the priority I give it. More power doesn't do us any good if you don't know how to use it safely, but yeah, to each his own . Enjoy your new mods . I am curious how much does sometbing like that cost? I would love to do as agree, rider training is very important.
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techsniffer
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Post by techsniffer on Mar 21, 2019 12:35:30 GMT -7
Just as a clarification, I DO NOT track my bike. Nor do my crappy town offer any kind of rider training. But I consider rider training an absolute must, especially with a powerful machine, but to each his own. Superbike School (and many others) provide the bike (a BMW S1000RR), and all gear, so you just show up. And in SB's case, they have several specialized bikes to explore the limits of braking, sliding, leaning, etc. Even one accident would be waaaay more than what rider training does, hence the priority I give it. More power doesn't do us any good if you don't know how to use it safely, but yeah, to each his own . Enjoy your new mods . I feel that rider education and training is vital to becoming a proficient and safe rider, I doubt anyone would ever dispute that. But as I said earlier some parts of the country simply do not have easy access to such programs. My son, who is turning 15 this month already has aspirations of getting a motorcycle when he's 16. Before I will even let him near a bike he will take a basic rider course and then for added measure make him watch hundreds of 'moto madness' style videos so help him identify stupid and dangerous situations as well as dangerous rider habits I see all the time in these videos. I think the two items will help to prepare him for what riding is really about. I wish my locale would have more offerings for more advanced rider training but the reality is I would likely have to travel 8+ hours to be able to find something like this. The unfortunate fact is ridership is and has been, in decline over the past 10 years, so some of these programs have become harder to get to and more expensive to attend. I think a basic rider course should be mandatory before being able to get a state motorcycle endorsement as the amount of stupid I see on bikes in my area is insane, to say the least. But I think this topic is far from the OP's intention, and I'll bring it around with this. Mods, for any bike, have and always will be for the rider of that bike. Some of us choose to mod and flash ecu and paint our bikes beige, there is no wrong way to mod, just as long as it's safe and makes the rider happy.
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