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Post by achrista on Jul 30, 2018 5:35:25 GMT -7
I went to a shop and had the bike dyno'd on Saturday. I think I got close to what the bike is capable of putting out (~150 hp) because the numbers went up with every run, but my max figure was 149.25 hp. I'm rounding that to 150.
Bike is a 2018 and has a Graves EVR 3/4 system, a 2wdw flash, and the flash tune autotune setup.
If they're getting 151 hp out of the OEM midpipe, they must have made some big strides in the flash since I sent mine in earlier this year.
  Something they pointed out is that on all my runs, A/F dropped off between 5 and 6k. They recommended a power commander until I told them it had an autotune system.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 6:46:05 GMT -7
Very interesting results, especially on the A/F drop off, i saw that on the first charts and wondered about that. Almost seems like the map is set up to do that? Is that dumping more fuel for some reason and the auto correct is just tweaking that map as it goes? Or is this an issue with intake air being too warm (less dense) and then the auto correct get's it back in line? I have the same set up except not the EVR version. I definitely want to take mine and get it dynoed. What gear were they in? Did they adjust tire pressure and was it strapped pretty well? Big fans? I also have read about dyno error factors, did the tech talk about that?
interesting none the less, thanks for sharing
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Post by achrista on Jul 30, 2018 11:09:07 GMT -7
you raise some good points/questions, and I certainly don't have answers for all of them.
I’m not sure if it’s intentional. That is a good question and one that I’d be interested in asking Nels at some point because I would think the autotune would stabilize AF at that point unless it’s rich by design. That seems to be the only spot in the map with an issue. One thing may be (I believe) the autotune can only make corrections within a certain percentage of the fueling parameters. Not sure if the necessary adjustments are outside of that range given the conditions. Regarding conditions, I didn’t think the garage running the dyno was particularly hot, but I am in VA where the climate is generally warm and humid in July, and the bike was sitting outside prior to being run.
All pulls were 6th gear. I believe it was strapped well, and I don’t think any TP adjustments were made. TP is one thought I also had, but I had plans after the dyno and didn’t bother checking yesterday, so maybe I’ll check today when I get home from work. I assumed HP was going up as the wheel was warming up. They did offer to keep doing runs because the figures kept increasing and they acknowledged that dynos are imperfect, but I was honestly expecting to see a HP figure around 150 (maybe a few higher) and I was most interested in checking the AF ratios post-tune. Because those were consistent across all runs, I didn’t worry about running it until I got a true peak HP figure.
I will say there's a massive difference in volume when the exup valve opens, which is good for suburban living. I really want to know if 150+ HP with the OEM cat is a real thing, because while I like my EVR, if it performs just as well as a reflashed stock system, idk why I spent all the $$.
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latte
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Post by latte on Jul 31, 2018 6:20:24 GMT -7
Do you know where the autotune begins to work in the RPMs? Surely earlier than 6k.. food for thought, 6k and below used to be where the bike was restricted preflash. I recall putting the stock exhaust on before getting their latest 151hp flash and there was a serious flat spot at 6k. That said, the stock exhaust flash imo lofts the front just as much and pulls comparable to the 3/4 exhaust tune I had, except everything is much quieter. I’ve yet to get the new tune on a dyno.
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Post by achrista on Jul 31, 2018 6:51:09 GMT -7
Also very interesting and good info. I don't know when autotune kicks in, but i would think it would take effect from when the fueling system detects any throttle inputs. I don't know why there would be any delay for a fuel controller, especially because I do spend the vast majority of my time between 4-6k when I'm not riding aggressively.
Maybe the EVR system's retention of the exup valve plays a role. Would restricting exhaust flow prior to the valve opening up (which i believe occurs around 6k) result in the mixture running rich?
BTW, I checked my TP yesterday after work and it was sitting at 35 PSI, so I could probably squeeze a bit of extra power by getting it up to spec.
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jjsc6
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Post by jjsc6 on Jul 31, 2018 6:51:21 GMT -7
I would want to see A/F ratio at different throttle openings. Seeing it a little rich at 100% throttle at those RPMs would not bother me because wide open through the gears you are spending no time at those RPMs. Having the correct A/F at this RPMs is more of a throttle response issue in normal part throttle riding.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2018 10:19:41 GMT -7
" I really want to know if 150+ HP with the OEM cat is a real thing, because while I like my EVR, if it performs just as well as a reflashed stock system, idk why I spent all the $$. " This is exactly what I was thinking! I dodn't have the EVR version but I have everything else... |
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Post by papawheelie on Aug 1, 2018 11:38:02 GMT -7
As I understand it, there was a time when a guy could buy a new motorcycle and then spend a little chunk of money on intake & exhaust and see an impressive 15 hp gain. But, that isn’t necessarily true anymore, the way (some) bikes are built at the manufacturer. It’s one of the things I like about this bike. I can spend just a couple hundred dollars to unlock the ECU along with a great baseline tune, and enjoy nearly 100% of the power that the bike has to offer. I can obviously spend a couple more thousand dollars on a full exhaust system, but the associated power gains are going to be negligible. Personally, I’d be better off spending that money on intermediate/advanced riding courses in order to become a faster, smoother, more proficient rider.
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rs
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Post by rs on Aug 1, 2018 20:02:54 GMT -7
thanks for the info. I am still wondering why full exhaust systems cost so much for these. Killing me.
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thomascrown
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Post by thomascrown on Aug 4, 2018 1:05:32 GMT -7
I'm surprised that you would buy that exhaust and not use the Graves flash which is free as long as you have an ft ecu flasher. Pretty sure they put a lot of time into mapping the exup valve for that exhaust. Your low rpm woes are likely exup related. Using any other flash defeats the purpose of the exhaust.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2018 13:01:05 GMT -7
Curious if you had TCS off during your runs? Or did you leave it on and the runs got faster because your tires were getting hotter and sticking better? I just did a "free dyno run" session at a local bike event this morning and guys were getting the #'s they were estimating before their runs, my best run was 143 but I forgot to turn off TCS. The operator said he didn't really like the curve and there was little drops at the top end just between 135 and 140. He said TCS could account for that and that it could make a 5-10hp difference? I have the 2WDW maps, 3/4 Graves (non EVR) and Active Tune  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2018 13:07:17 GMT -7
And there was an R1S just ahead of me with PC and slip on and he put down 160HP which is exactly what he estimated he would do, he had left so I couldn't ask him about TCS.
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Post by achrista on Aug 6, 2018 14:24:55 GMT -7
I'm surprised that you would buy that exhaust and not use the Graves flash which is free as long as you have an ft ecu flasher. Pretty sure they put a lot of time into mapping the exup valve for that exhaust. Your low rpm woes are likely exup related. Using any other flash defeats the purpose of the exhaust. I went with 2wdw and bought the exhaust from them. Given that they work extensively with chuck graves I guess I assumed they would build off their map accordingly. Now it is ironic that the map runs rich with the exup valve closed given that the valve is supposed to improve performance in that range. That is a good question though. |
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Post by achrista on Aug 6, 2018 14:26:21 GMT -7
Curious if you had TCS off during your runs? Or did you leave it on and the runs got faster because your tires were getting hotter and sticking better? I just did a "free dyno run" session at a local bike event this morning and guys were getting the #'s they were estimating before their runs, my best run was 143 but I forgot to turn off TCS. The operator said he didn't really like the curve and there was little drops at the top end just between 135 and 140. He said TCS could account for that and that it could make a 5-10hp difference? I have the 2WDW maps, 3/4 Graves (non EVR) and Active Tune TC was off. I figured it would throw a code with it on as others have experienced. I am guessing I would get pretty close to your peak # if I had them keep pulling. |
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dertymt
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Post by dertymt on Aug 18, 2018 0:06:34 GMT -7
The Mt is definitely capable of more. Although browsing the forums and other sites it seems the US MTs put down less power than the euro and Aus ones. I think I have my dyno sheet in the gallery section, completely stock bike after custom map, 162hp atw. Dunno if it's fuel or what that's different but mid 150s are The norm for them here. It's quite interesting, if anyone knows why there is such a big difference I'd like to know.
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fz10minesrdripper
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Post by fz10minesrdripper on Aug 19, 2018 22:48:06 GMT -7
I'm no expert on dyno results, but I'm pretty sure once the US version has all the crap removed and gets a proper flash...they should be within a few ponies. It's more than likely the dyno machine it's self. Unless the euro bikes have different engine components...cylinder head, cams, compression...which I'm 99.99999 % sure they don't. Maybe a dyno tuner could chime in and clarify.
150 rwhp is plenty to do some serious road work. I hope to get mine tuned to 155 rwhp with a woolich tune...150 is enough though. I'll buy a 2017 R1 when I want more horsepower and want to really show some guys up at the local track days...but it's so fun to do it on a sports touring bike.  |
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dertymt
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Post by dertymt on Aug 20, 2018 16:00:15 GMT -7
Yeh I know there is definitely difference from dyno to dyno but here they have 2 dyno jet dyno and both have same readout for my bike an others. Could be also the fuel maybe? What's the highest octane rating you guys have in the US? Here we get 98 on pump. So maybe timing and stuff could be a bit more since there is access to higher octane fuel. I do agreed about the power though, anymore than 155, 160 it's pointless on these. Already have a hard enough time putting that power down without doing a back flip.
I'm at the dyno place now and there is an mt10 here getting a super charger kit put on, they estimate around 240hp atw....
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blackclu
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Post by blackclu on Aug 23, 2018 8:33:33 GMT -7
Hey all, couple of points as someone who uses a dyno regularly. ALL dynos are different. If you have a dyno and replace the drum, you will get new reading. There are a few reasons one dyno will show different from another, 1 is the dyno itself and another is the atmospheric corrections. You can "tweak" a dyno to read higher. One other thing to consider when thinking about US vs other countries is gas. I truly don't know, but if octane is different, that will effect it. And of course the actual atmosphere, if it's 100+ and 85% humidity you could make a lot less power than a 75 degree morning when it's dry.
Now one thing about the active tune. If you are using flashtune (or any other system) you are running the map that is loaded and then the active tune makes corrections. So if the stock map is way rich, it will adjust, but the bigger the difference, the harder to adjust. What you can do is, take a run on a dyno or a few laps on a track and the active tune will learn, you can then write that to the map. Now the map will be closer to where you want to be and the active tune will need to make smaller corrections.
Hope that helps
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