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Post by evitzee on Dec 23, 2017 19:42:37 GMT -7
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clemo
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Post by clemo on Dec 24, 2017 5:36:00 GMT -7
You U.S owners seem to suffer from a sizeable deficit in horse power☹️
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Post by heathhudnall on Dec 24, 2017 7:59:17 GMT -7
So...does an ECU flash get rid of the limiters on the American models? Gaining the horsepower that is restricted?
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jjsc6
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Post by jjsc6 on Dec 24, 2017 8:06:13 GMT -7
And lack of SP features. Even with the SP option it would be the cheapest in the test. The reason I'm on this forum and the Super Duke - trying to figure out what to replace my S1000R with in the next six months. I like the idea of Yamaha reliability and dealer network. The missing 20 Hp would help my decision. And I'd rather have the 20 hp without an aftermarket tune.
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osiris10012
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Post by osiris10012 on Dec 24, 2017 8:12:54 GMT -7
The 2wheeldynoworks ecu flash resolves the us model tuning restriction issue. Honestly my favorite mod so far, well along with my exhaust.
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Post by papawheelie on Dec 24, 2017 8:28:22 GMT -7
You U.S owners seem to suffer from a sizeable deficit in horse power☹️ Really??? You had to go there? My girlfriend tells me all the time, that size doesn’t matter — it’s how I ride, that makes the difference! Besides, that’s just our government protecting us from ourselves, because they value us so much! So, there. |
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stuyamaha
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Post by stuyamaha on Dec 24, 2017 9:13:33 GMT -7
Thanks for the link evitzee, and a merry Christmas from the UK. |
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Post by evitzee on Dec 24, 2017 9:36:14 GMT -7
I think the loss of hp on the -10 is a legitimate gripe for track use, but c'mon, in real world bike use on public roads whether you have 135 or 150 hp available at the top end is insignificant. Now a reflash can help in throttle response and in other areas and that's all good, but the added hp is just for braggin' rights. Even the pro riders said they really couldn't feel the deficiency in the -10's power on the road. If you really want to go faster on the -10, or any bike for that matter, get some professional training and go to the track. Just stacking on more raw hp doesn't really do much for the average, or above average, rider.
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Post by clayton on Dec 24, 2017 10:38:30 GMT -7
You U.S owners seem to suffer from a sizeable deficit in horse power☹️ Really??? You had to go there? My girlfriend tells me all the time, that size doesn’t matter — it’s how I ride, that makes the difference! Besides, that’s just our government protecting us from ourselves, because they value us so much! So, there. So this doesn’t make any sense to me. So the government is restricting the power on the fz10 sold in the USA 🇺🇸. The other 3 bikes are sold here in the USA 🇺🇸 too without any restrictions. Why isn’t the government enforcing this on the other 3 manufacturers. |
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superspirit
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Post by superspirit on Dec 24, 2017 11:07:07 GMT -7
Because Yamaha hasn't bribed enough politicians!
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Post by papawheelie on Dec 24, 2017 11:17:45 GMT -7
That, and I was just being silly. Forgot to add the winky face. 😉
To be honest, I don’t pretend to know why these things are the way they are. 👍🏽
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daveinwoodland
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Post by daveinwoodland on Dec 24, 2017 12:07:00 GMT -7
There is always one glaringly obvious ommission to me in any road test. They never mention brand reliability or dealer network considerations. To me at least that is a huge factor in deciding on what to buy. If I have a motorcycle that is great in every aspect except reliability or ease of service big deal.
I would prefer to stick with a reliable brand/model vs. what was presented. I've had my share of unreliable motorcycles and that for me ruins my experience. It was interesting that the dyno results were a bit lower, but makes sense that they can be oversome as well.
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Post by clayton on Dec 24, 2017 13:50:26 GMT -7
There is always one glaringly obvious ommission to me in any road test. They never mention brand reliability or dealer network considerations. To me at least that is a huge factor in deciding on what to buy. If I have a motorcycle that is great in every aspect except reliability or ease of service big deal. I would prefer to stick with a reliable brand/model vs. what was presented. I've had my share of unreliable motorcycles and that for me ruins my experience. It was interesting that the dyno results were a bit lower, but makes sense that they can be oversome as well. They did mention in the video that yamaha was the most reliable brand |
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Post by achrista on Dec 24, 2017 14:19:49 GMT -7
I watched the youtube video the put out, and while I am glad they ran a shootout to show the bikes in action, I do have a few issues w/ the review and vehemently agree with the issues raised in this thread. My biggest grip is that they're complaining about the stock tune. That's fine and all, and a valid complaint, but they harp on it for so long and indirectly mention that this is totally resolved with a flash. As if most people looking to buy in this class will leave the exhaust or specifically the fuel map stock.  What jumped out at me is that these are clearly last year's models. They did a shoot out with this VERY motorcycle a year ago where all they did was rave about the FZ-10. Granted, they've dropped 2 bikes from last year, but it's a bit inconsistent. Maybe that's out of necessity due to the time it takes to film these, but imo they should at least acknowledge that they're reviewing new-old-old stock when the 2018's are available for sale. And it's downright wrong to hold the "lack of a quickshifter" against the bike when it's stock on the 18s, which ARE available at the date of publication. All in all, it's an interesting comparison and i'm obviously a bit biased, but bike journalism is always going to be bike journalism. that is why i'm a bigger fan of forums and independent youtubers (when they're competent, which is in itself a rarity) |
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ikranmakto
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Post by ikranmakto on Dec 24, 2017 17:41:48 GMT -7
Enjoyed the video shootout comparison Evitzee, and possibly as everyone on this forum viewed it with a bit of bias towards Yamaha.
Even though I was trading a KTM at the time the Superduke R was never on my list. Aprillia was a choice but screamed 'throw money at me' at every service, toyed with the idea of buying the BMW S1000 R as I believe it was ergonomically the closest to hing to the MT10 which suited my height restricted 5'5" frame.
I watched every YouTube video in the galaxy and beyond before purchasing my MT10.
What sold me eventually was the reliability of the Yamaha products and that brilliant inline four cylinder 998cc crossplane motor.
What did surprise me in this shootout was the missing HP of the FZ10 as compared to the stats listed by the MT10 which is 159hp.. What gives there?
Really can't say the performance output would be an issue in everyday riding but what is the reason behind restricting the output of the FZ10 coming out of the showroom.
I thought the journo's must have got their data wrong until I read the Dyno results, surely this can't be a USA government restriction, after all, this is a country that allows people to buy 5.7 litre V8 Boss Hoss motorcycles.
Anyways, Merry Christmas and new year to all the FZ/MT10 brethren, it may be a cold ride in your parts but we are sweltering here in Aus at the moment.
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jjsc6
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Post by jjsc6 on Dec 24, 2017 19:04:50 GMT -7
I think the loss of hp on the -10 is a legitimate gripe for track use, but c'mon, in real world bike use on public roads whether you have 135 or 150 hp available at the top end is insignificant. Now a reflash can help in throttle response and in other areas and that's all good, but the added hp is just for braggin' rights. Even the pro riders said they really couldn't feel the deficiency in the -10's power on the road. If you really want to go faster on the -10, or any bike for that matter, get some professional training and go to the track. Just stacking on more raw hp doesn't really do much for the average, or above average, rider. So based upon your logic. 120 hp should be fine too....but wait, then 105 hp should be okay.....90....75.... No, none of us needs 150 hp, but then again most of us are buying bikes like this for performance. I like the rush of acceleration. I have since I started driving nearly 50 years ago. My need for speed has not diminished at all. It does not mean I would not buy a bike like this with 135 hp, but it is part of the decision making matrix. |
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Post by achrista on Dec 24, 2017 21:01:49 GMT -7
I think the loss of hp on the -10 is a legitimate gripe for track use, but c'mon, in real world bike use on public roads whether you have 135 or 150 hp available at the top end is insignificant. Now a reflash can help in throttle response and in other areas and that's all good, but the added hp is just for braggin' rights. Even the pro riders said they really couldn't feel the deficiency in the -10's power on the road. If you really want to go faster on the -10, or any bike for that matter, get some professional training and go to the track. Just stacking on more raw hp doesn't really do much for the average, or above average, rider. So based upon your logic. 120 hp should be fine too....but wait, then 105 hp should be okay.....90....75.... No, none of us needs 150 hp, but then again most of us are buying bikes like this for performance. I like the rush of acceleration. I have since I started driving nearly 50 years ago. My need for speed has not diminished at all. It does not mean I would not buy a bike like this with 135 hp, but it is part of the decision making matrix. If you like the rush of acceleration, you're a fan of torque. HP is torque multiplied by rpm. and evitzee is right -- you're not going to worry about 135 v. 150 on the street when all the torque is available early in the rev range. the issue is wholly resolved by a tune, and it's not apparent unless you're on a track with long straights. |
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jjsc6
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Post by jjsc6 on Dec 25, 2017 5:32:09 GMT -7
So based upon your logic. 120 hp should be fine too....but wait, then 105 hp should be okay.....90....75.... No, none of us needs 150 hp, but then again most of us are buying bikes like this for performance. I like the rush of acceleration. I have since I started driving nearly 50 years ago. My need for speed has not diminished at all. It does not mean I would not buy a bike like this with 135 hp, but it is part of the decision making matrix. If you like the rush of acceleration, you're a fan of torque. HP is torque multiplied by rpm. and evitzee is right -- you're not going to worry about 135 v. 150 on the street when all the torque is available early in the rev range. the issue is wholly resolved by a tune, and it's not apparent unless you're on a track with long straights. I know all about torque and horsepower. What I care about is how fast the bike accelerates. It's a combination of both. I see redline many, many times every time I ride. Maybe some folks are stuck riding in cities all the time. I don't. I ride many miles of backroads every time I ride where I have plenty of opportunities to run wide open through the gears. |
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mtneer
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Post by mtneer on Dec 26, 2017 11:16:08 GMT -7
I read the article and watched the video, and went thru the comments here, yes it does suck that more than anything else noise emissions restrict the power of the FZ10, it has less sophisticated electronics and is reflected in the price, plus a savy buyer can usually get a better deal on a Japanese bike compared to most Euro bikes. I did a lot of research on most of the bikes in the test and a few of the SuperAdv bikes as well. I liked the FZ10 from the first ride I took on a demo, it was like the seat position fit me perfectly, I never rode any of the other bikes but sat on the Aprillia and Superduke, I know from talking to other owners and riding the S1000RR at a two day school that the R model would be a strong performer. Performance has a lot to do with the purchase decision of a SuperNaked, but I also knew that from doing research the FZ was restricted and that a flash would give it a boost in power even leaving the stock pipe in place, I also felt that the Yamaha would be more reliable and cost less from a servicing standpoint than the other bikes. The Aprillia is the best performer of all the bikes, it wins most comparison tests from many different testing sources, but I was leery of it due to its compact nature and complex electronics if something were to go wrong on the bike, even though there is a reliable dealer about 45 minutes from me, KTM was the same reason and I'm not a fan of the Vtwin, the BMW was ruled out because the nearest dealer is 2hrs away. I also knew that any power or handling deficit the FZ has could be addressed by the aftermarket and myself for the most part, and I like the crossplane engine concept. Any bike in the test is more than capable for a street rider, it just comes down to what you want.
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tradmark
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Post by tradmark on Dec 26, 2017 19:33:24 GMT -7
Soooo, ive thought about pulling the trigger on the tuono for awhile now. I went and rode one and really it doesnt give me any feel having more power than my ‘10 with the flash and graves slipon. One thing not addressed is that the fz10 is the smoothest vibes wise of the group. I hated the bmw and the superduke. Heck they had a superduke gt that i rode before this one and picked the ‘10 without thinking twice. Now i have shad quick detach bags and its a great sport touring mount.
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