goodman4
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Post by goodman4 on Nov 15, 2020 0:20:49 GMT -7
I did measurements and adjustments this evening after my first real ride today. I am over 220 lbs so I had to max out the front and rear preload to get the sag numbers to 40mm front and 35mm rear exactly. That's within range, right? I'd prefer to have a little less sag in the rear but if this gets me by for now, I'm happy that I got there without a different spring.
I'm just getting ready to start tweaking the other settings now that I've got the sag at a workable place. My question for any suspension gurus out there is whether the behavior of the shock is negatively impacted by having the preload maxed? I was thinking that if you had the sag right, you had the compression and rebound in a workable range.
In my ride today everything was stock settings and I had two issues. Bumps were way too harsh, especially the high speed dampening type. Secondly, I almost got in trouble when braking once. I wasn't driving that aggressively but slowed kind of hard before a curve and the rear went a little squirrely on me. I'm quite sure the preload will help with issue one and I can tweak it into a good balance after playing with it. But is the light rear end under braking suspension related or just a characteristic of this bike? I'm used to much heavier bikes (FJR and Goldwing), so this could just be me learning the handling of the bike, I guess. Different topic, but the ABS seems to kick in awfully quick on this bike.
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mrcdharwood
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Post by mrcdharwood on Nov 15, 2020 2:55:16 GMT -7
At that sort of weight, like myself, you're at the max for the stock shocks.
My bikes previous owner fitted an updated spring which allowed for a bit more adjustment rather than maxing out but it really needs a shock built to my weight.
I also paid a suspension expert £40 to set my bike up for me and this made a massive improvement.
I've never found the ABS too intrusive but that can be down rider style as we are all different and ride our own way.
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vk
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Post by vk on Nov 15, 2020 5:00:12 GMT -7
I'm 230 and had a suspension shop set up mine as well. Suspension is not perfect but actually pretty doable for street riding. With stock settings I would bottom out the rear suspension but once everything was adjusted I haven't. If your gonna hit the track I would definitely look at getting a upgraded shock though
As far as ABS... my rear brake is pretty quick to activate. I put on EBC HH sintered pads and now the front brakes are actually decent so don't use the rear brake much at all except slow maneuvering. The brake pads are a must upgrade in my opinion. Way better feel!!
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dkim213
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Post by dkim213 on Nov 15, 2020 12:43:05 GMT -7
I’m the same weight as you (assuming w/o gear). I went 1.0 kg/mm springs in the front. The compression is nearly all the way out and rebound almost all the way in.
The rear I got a heavier spring, 575 lb/in, put on a revalved and rebuilt r1 shock.
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goodman4
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Post by goodman4 on Nov 17, 2020 10:38:48 GMT -7
I don't argue a bit that it would be worth having a setup done by a professional, however I live in Western KY and there isn't any place nearby that seems to offer that. I've found a place in Nashville, but that isn't an easy solution.
Ever since my Lee Parks Total Control class several years ago, I've been interested in suspension but have never gotten good at it. I put an upgraded (used) Penske shock on my FJR by myself and did a lot of tweaking to get it to feel good, but it probably still isn't optimal. I had a guy I trusted on the FJR Forum coach me through the adjustments and I learned a lot. I want to get better at this and the MT-10 is a good excuse to work on it. I want to see if I can get it adjusted reasonably well for me with the stock springs before I do spring upgrades next year or later.
I like reading and there is a lot of good information to digest out there to go along with the Total Control book. But the specific behavior I'm seeing with this bike is throwing me on the rebound:
- As stated above I have the preload maxxed out to the stiffest setting and the sag is 40mm in front and 35mm in rear. This would be better with less sag, but should be minimally ok.
- For setting rebound, the front will pop back up after compression very quickly even at the stiffest setting of 1. If I set the rebound to a high, soft setting like 12, it actually feels better and still settles very quickly with no bounce. I expected the hard setting to be slow coming up, but it isn't.
- When I do a zip-tie test of braking in the driveway, it goes down to a little over 1.5 inches so that's not the desired 2 inches, but better than the danger area of 1 inch.
This seems like it's telling me opposite things. The zip-tie braking test is telling me it is too soft and the compression return test is telling me it's very hard.
Am I looking at something incorrectly?
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dkim213
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Post by dkim213 on Nov 18, 2020 10:47:15 GMT -7
What do you mean by rebound setting 1 and 12?
Rebound is increased (slows down) when screwing the adjuster in.
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goodman4
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Post by goodman4 on Nov 19, 2020 0:10:42 GMT -7
What do you mean by rebound setting 1 and 12? Rebound is increased (slows down) when screwing the adjuster in. Thanks for responding. I agree 1 is the hardest (most rebound) setting and is when it is turned all the way clockwise (starting point). I expect that to be a little slow coming up from compressing the forks, but it is still really fast. It doesn't change much until I go past 12 clicks out. 13 clicks out bounces just a bit, but 12 clicks out still settles just fine with no bounce. My concern is that it is never seems slow coming up even at the most firm rebound setting. I think I was not understanding the impact of rebound on the brake test, though. Rebound might have the opposite impact I was expecting. Too much rebound can cause more dive, right? I think I'm getting closer and will have some time to play this weekend. |
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dkim213
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Post by dkim213 on Nov 19, 2020 10:31:58 GMT -7
What do you mean by rebound setting 1 and 12? Rebound is increased (slows down) when screwing the adjuster in. Thanks for responding. I agree 1 is the hardest (most rebound) setting and is when it is turned all the way clockwise (starting point). I expect that to be a little slow coming up from compressing the forks, but it is still really fast. It doesn't change much until I go past 12 clicks out. 13 clicks out bounces just a bit, but 12 clicks out still settles just fine with no bounce. My concern is that it is never seems slow coming up even at the most firm rebound setting. I think I was not understanding the impact of rebound on the brake test, though. Rebound might have the opposite impact I was expecting. Too much rebound can cause more dive, right? I think I'm getting closer and will have some time to play this weekend. The things that you’re saying make some sense and other parts don’t seem to make sense. Screwing in TEN (rebound) CW is making rebound harder/slower. So when you say you’re 12/13 clicks out and it doesn’t bounce, that doesn’t make sense. Maybe our definitions of bounce are different. Rebound shouldn’t have an affect on braking. That’s spring rate, spring preload, and compression. |
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goodman4
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Post by goodman4 on Nov 19, 2020 12:03:48 GMT -7
Screwing in TEN (rebound) CW is making rebound harder/slower. So when you say you’re 12/13 clicks out and it doesn’t bounce, that doesn’t make sense. Maybe our definitions of bounce are different. Using Dave Moss's wording in the video, doing exactly what he is doing, it only bounces a little at 13 or 14 clicks out (all the way out) and it "tops out" just like the bike in the video when I'm at 12 clicks. The small amount of rebound dampening needed is what I was surprised about and how fast it still comes up when it is at 1. I will do compression adjustment with it at 12 clicks rebound to see how it feels. Also I will check it after it's been ridden for a while. I went back and re-read the section in my Total Control book where I thought he was saying brake diving could be impacted by rebound, but that was not what it said, so I'm understanding that better now. |
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goodman4
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Post by goodman4 on Nov 19, 2020 12:18:04 GMT -7
Ok bear with me here. At 15:50 in this video he has the rebound set to 1. He "says" it is coming up slow and continuing to creep up, but it doesn't look that way to me. It looks like it's coming up quickly and staying there. It certainly isn't taking over a second to come up. Am I seeing this incorrectly? This is not very different than my bike right now at 1 click (hard).
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dkim213
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Post by dkim213 on Nov 19, 2020 14:57:35 GMT -7
Ok bear with me here. At 15:50 in this video he has the rebound set to 1. He "says" it is coming up slow and continuing to creep up, but it doesn't look that way to me. It looks like it's coming up quickly and staying there. It certainly isn't taking over a second to come up. Am I seeing this incorrectly? This is not very different than my bike right now at 1 click (hard). When the rebound was closed, it came up slow. When he opened up rebound, it was faster. When he opened it up further, you can see the fork over shoot and then settle. |
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goodman4
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Post by goodman4 on Nov 19, 2020 21:52:52 GMT -7
ok. It seems this was the sticking point for me. I was not interpreting this return when the rebound is closed as being "slow" since it was still coming back up within a second. I'm done thinking about that, since I know that is what is being called slow by all the manuals and videos.
No more outstanding questions right now, but I hope to get more adjustment this weekend.
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goodman4
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Post by goodman4 on Nov 21, 2020 15:37:21 GMT -7
Today I did several adjustments, one at a time making notes and tracking everything. I also measured the sag in front and rear again. With the bike having 300 miles on it now and this time with it having been just ridden, the sag on both were a touch better (still at the maxed preload settings). The front sag is 37 and the rear 32.5.
It is much better and feels pretty close except I think the maxxed preload in the rear is impacting ride height from where it was at stock for me. I can barely get the balls of my feet down which is ok, but I've lost that confidence I had turning around when it was at stock. I won't trade ride performance for that small height, but I wonder what a stiffer spring would do? What will be the impact of a stiffer spring in ride height? If I try to keep the sag in the middle of the 30-35 road range will less preload on the spring lower it or will that not make a difference?
I'm much happier with everything right now even though I'm sure it can get a lot better as I learn more or get someone to help that is more experienced.
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