seancusmc
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Posts: 31
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Registered: Dec 8, 2018 1:04:29 GMT -7
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Post by seancusmc on May 12, 2019 19:23:55 GMT -7
Hey all. I am having a little trouble deciding which to do with. I am lucky to have a shop close by that has a dyno and can also flash my ECU, but I am still learning the differences and wanted to hear from you guys which one you would choose.
So heres my situation. I just installed the Yoshimura Alpha T Race. So that means I no longer have a cat and I disconnected my servo cables. I haven't ridden the bike yet, but I did run it to hear the new exhaust. It sounds so much better and so much louder, but I defintely hear some backfiring when I cut the throttle.
I called my local shop. They said they use ECU unleashed and they can flash in a map that should work well enough for around $350. The guy I was talking to on the phone was really pushing for me to choose the power commander option. He offered me their "Power commander package," which includes the power commander, the install, and a custom tune on a dyno. The tuner was said that it takes a lot of time to complete this tune and they they custom map the bike for perfect fueling at every step. Also, if I ever want to race it or make the most power, the power commander is the best. This option costs $850.
So which would you choose and why? I'm sort of not 100% convinced that an off the shelf ECU map is safe or smart, but im pretty sure it is. Im also not convinced that a custom Dyno map will be that much better than an ECU flash.
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Post by RedAndBlack on May 13, 2019 0:45:34 GMT -7
I also have a 3/4 system and I went with a ECU flash. I got the flash from a local guy who already had ECU mapping custom done for another rider who brought his FZ10 in to get dynotuned. So it was from a professional tuner who developed a custom ECU flash for the bike. This flash included everything from removing all of the emissions restrictions, to smoothing out the throttle, and obviously the fuel and ignition maps.
New motorcycles come out of the factory severely restricted thanks to emisisions and noise reduction restrictions. A ECU flash will bring the new mapped ECU into less restricted parameters, often increasing lower end torque, power, and improving throttle response. Right now, your bike is running with parameters that do best with a catalytic converter and an exup valve. If you remove those, you want an ECU that accounts for those restrictive parts not being present on the bike.
A power commander goes a step further and managers the ammount of fuel that comes out of the injectors to attempt to get a perfect or near perfect air to fuel ratio. That's the only thing a power commander does, is manage fuel. A good tuner does this on a Dyno, using sophisticated tools to monitor the bike to determine the best parameters that your personal bike should fall into.
So what is best? Getting BOTH an ECU flash and a power commander.
What is even better? Getting an active tune system that adjusts the bike on the fly. As everything from weather conditions to elevation can change the way the bike acts, even with an ECU flash or a power commander that has been dynotuned.
What is most practical? Depends what you want to do with the bike. To squeeze every potential digit of horsepower and torque, the dynotune would be your best option out of the two you're looking into and an active tune system would be the absolute best solution. If you just want the bike to run better and bring the ECU to perform better without the restrictions that emissions impose on these bikes an ECU flash is your best and cheapest bet.
My personal opinion, I don't know why one would be attempting to Max out performance for such a high cost on, at least what I define as, a sport touring bike for the reason of "Racing". The stock suspension on the bike would far more limit the bikes overall speed capability vs the horsepower gained by a dynotune. If you want a racebike, why didn't you get an R1? But like I said, that's 100 % my opinion. I have a trackbike, the FZ10 is my canyon Carver. I never outperform the bikes capabilities on the street. But At the end of the day, to each their own. The FZ10 for sure can be a race/track bike if it's what you prefer .
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seancusmc
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Posts: 31
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Registered: Dec 8, 2018 1:04:29 GMT -7
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Post by seancusmc on May 13, 2019 7:28:31 GMT -7
Thanks for the reply. I think you’re right, I’m just going to flash it. I have absolutely no intention of racing this bike. I just want it to run right. How do i know the flash they use is safe for my bike? It seems like you got a great flash done by a tuner for someone else’s bike, so it should be a good fit for your bike. But I’ll have no idea what their putting on my bike. Should I get it dynod and have the data analyzed? Thanks again for all that info. You know your stuff.
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Post by clayton on May 13, 2019 8:23:46 GMT -7
Thanks for the reply. I think you’re right, I’m just going to flash it. I have absolutely no intention of racing this bike. I just want it to run right. How do i know the flash they use is safe for my bike? It seems like you got a great flash done by a tuner for someone else’s bike, so it should be a good fit for your bike. But I’ll have no idea what their putting on my bike. Should I get it dynod and have the data analyzed? Thanks again for all that info. You know your stuff. Have 2wheeldynoworks.com flash your ECU.
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seancusmc
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Posts: 31
Likes: 11
Registered: Dec 8, 2018 1:04:29 GMT -7
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Post by seancusmc on May 13, 2019 9:43:52 GMT -7
i went to their website and I considered using them. I was going to buy their flash and exhaust package but I decided to buy from a local shop and have a relationship with them so I have someone to call when I need help down the road. Another reason I won’t use them is because I live in ny and I do t want to wait a week for them to receive flash and return my ecu.
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Post by thefinn on May 13, 2019 11:03:03 GMT -7
I would also say to just get the bike working with the new exhaust and thats it.
Personally atleast, the only time ive ever been able to pin the throttle was on a highway going way over the speed limit of 75 mph. The only thing i would change is more torque in the low rpm range. You dont need more than 160 ponies, youll never use it on the streets (i hope)
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dewaynehasty
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Registered: Jan 15, 2018 20:21:55 GMT -7
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Post by dewaynehasty on May 13, 2019 13:47:37 GMT -7
Thanks for the reply. I think you’re right, I’m just going to flash it. I have absolutely no intention of racing this bike. I just want it to run right. How do i know the flash they use is safe for my bike? It seems like you got a great flash done by a tuner for someone else’s bike, so it should be a good fit for your bike. But I’ll have no idea what their putting on my bike. Should I get it dynod and have the data analyzed? Thanks again for all that info. You know your stuff. Have 2wheeldynoworks.com flash your ECU. There is "driveway" / road about half way down the dragon, parson branch road. It is one way outbound to the dragon. I've been on it. Mostly gravel rode. Maybe that is what you are referring to.
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seancusmc
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Posts: 31
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Registered: Dec 8, 2018 1:04:29 GMT -7
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Post by seancusmc on May 13, 2019 17:18:41 GMT -7
I really dont want more power. I wont say no to it, but it's not like I am planning on riding it to anywhere near the max. I just want the bike to run right. I know removing the cat will cause it to run lean and hot. Some people wont bother tuning it and have no issues, but I cant see the motor lasting very long without a tune, especially if you dont baby it as you ride it. I guess I really just want peace of mind in knowing that I did what I could to prevent engine problems.
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jroc
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Registered: Feb 18, 2018 7:47:50 GMT -7
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Post by jroc on May 13, 2019 19:19:17 GMT -7
Whether I have the skill or not, I want my bike to be running top-notch with all the horses available. An ECU flash is the only way to do this which is why I purchased a Flash Tuner and Active Tuner. My bike runs absolutely awesome from under 3k rpm to redline! I'm still considering a dyno tune even with my setup so I can ensure everything is within safe parameters.
I'm not a mechanic or tuning professional, but I have owned several bikes with a Power Commander. It is antiquated technology. Don't waste your money. I would rank the different setups in this order:
1. ECU flash with dyno tune AND active tune 2. ECU flash with dyno tune OR active tune 3. Mail-in ECU flash 4. Power commander 5. Stock
Side note: I'll be flogging mine around COTA in a couple weeks. I'll be using the Active Tune data to further tweak my ECU flash as well.
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seancusmc
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Posts: 31
Likes: 11
Registered: Dec 8, 2018 1:04:29 GMT -7
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Post by seancusmc on May 17, 2019 19:44:22 GMT -7
So I got the ECU flashed. Prior to doing this I installed the exhaust and rode it around the block. That threw the check engine light. I asked the guy at the shop and he speculated that it may have thrown the code because I messed with the servo motor, which I did. I moved the motor to get the lines off it, didnt put it back the way it was before starting. I also accidentally took it apart more than necessary. I put right back together, but I may have screwed it up. Even if I put it back together perfect, if it can sense it, it's left open by me. So I put the newly flashed ECU in and I still have a check engine light. I called the shop that flashed it and they said I need to put some miles on to clear the code. does this seem right? They said that the servo motor code should be disabled. It makes sense to some degree, but I thought a newly flashed ECu should have cleared those codes. I guess at this point I need to ride it to work a few times and see where I am at. I am going to schedule an appointment to do some dyno pulls to make sure the tune on the ECU is good. They used ECunleashed ( which is apparently an italian company, and they had to communicate with them when their business hours coincide) to flash the ECU. The shop I worked with is confident in them, but I am not sure and I think I might have been better off using 2wheeldynoworks, since they have a proven track record. The popping from the exhaust on decel sounds like gunshots btw. It's loud and annoying. The shop I went to said that I need to install clock off plated for this, even with that system disabled. I think an AIS delete is in order. I think that moving forward, if the dyno shows my tune is good from the flash, than I just need the AIS delete myself. But, if its off to the point that I can damage the engine, then I will probably do a custom fueling tune on a power commander as well.
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seancusmc
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Posts: 31
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Registered: Dec 8, 2018 1:04:29 GMT -7
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Post by seancusmc on May 17, 2019 19:51:36 GMT -7
On a side note, I really wanted to do the Austin Racing GP3 Belly exit, but after talking to a bike shop and shopping around, I went with the yoshimura Alpha T 3/4 exhaust with the cat delete. My goal was to produce more sound since I could not hear my bike on the highway at all and that made me feel invisible and in danger. I was apprehensive to use the yoshimura because I didnt think it was loud enough after hearing it on youtube, I was very wrong. This exhaust is extremely loud. It sounds great, from a mile away. Youtube videos do it no justice and I think that goes across the board with the way microphones work to normalize sound. I had to install the DB killer out of respect to my neighbors because I travel to work at odd hours, sometimes 2AM. Even with the DB killer, I think some of them might want to set my bike on fire, so Ill have to be careful to keep the revs low.
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Post by clayton on May 17, 2019 20:30:55 GMT -7
On a side note, I really wanted to do the Austin Racing GP3 Belly exit, but after talking to a bike shop and shopping around, I went with the yoshimura Alpha T 3/4 exhaust with the cat delete. My goal was to produce more sound since I could not hear my bike on the highway at all and that made me feel invisible and in danger. I was apprehensive to use the yoshimura because I didnt think it was loud enough after hearing it on youtube, I was very wrong. This exhaust is extremely loud. It sounds great, from a mile away. Youtube videos do it no justice and I think that goes across the board with the way microphones work to normalize sound. I had to install the DB killer out of respect to my neighbors because I travel to work at odd hours, sometimes 2AM. Even with the DB killer, I think some of them might want to set my bike on fire, so Ill have to be careful to keep the revs low. I love my yoshi! Yes it is very loud! Very happy with mine and no dB killer in mine!😃
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