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Post by thefinn on May 21, 2019 22:49:34 GMT -7
Welcome to the rabbithole of suspension technology  Great! Some things on the suspension are just things that have one right setting (preload and reboud) for us normal riders, but the compression is more of a personal preference so that is free to change howeber you like. |
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mario
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Registered: Apr 4, 2018 4:44:17 GMT -7
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Post by mario on May 24, 2019 3:41:17 GMT -7
1. The ziptie should be at about 2 inches from the metal part where the fork goes into. This leaves some suspension travel for small bumps, decreasing your braking distance and handling  If its ~1 inch from the bottom it has bottomed out, which is bad news. This causes the front to lock up prematurely, especially during emergency braking. 2. Feel free to adjust the compression of the forks and slow speed compression on the shock. That is where the "feeling" is and you cant mess too much up.3. Just be sure that the front and back are even, so when you step down suddenly on your footpeg (no brake applied, standing besides it) the front and the back should sink at the same rate 4. The high speed compression on the shock is for bumps, you can adjust that too if you feel like the rear is rough on bumpy roads. Just dont turn it too much as this can make the rear compression collapse while cornering, instead of going down at the same rate as the forks. 5. Some things on the suspension are just things that have one right setting (preload and reboud) for us normal riders, but the compression is more of a personal preference so that is free to change howeber you like. There is a fair bit of incorrect and misleading info posted here so I am going to try and sift through some of it. 1. If you have 2 inches (50.8mm) of spare travel you are no-where near using all the suspension travel, and 1 inch (25.4mm) is no-where near bottom out. I have not had these forks apart yet, but hydraulic bottom out is usually just 5mm or so (circa 0.2 inches) above the casting at the bottom of the fork. I would suggest aiming for 25mm (1 inch) of spare travel when braking hard on the road, it will give you some extra travel for emergency braking while making good use of the majority of suspension travel. 2. While I do agree you need to experiment with dampening, rebound is where you should start. Compression is a bit more personal and too much compression will make the front feel very firm. It can be used to add some support under braking (front) & acceleration (rear) when the spring is too soft, but that is a temporary work around until the springs are corrected. However you CAN mess this up. Winding the adjusters in fully will make for a very harsh ride with no little dampening and make the front more likely to tuck when cornering over bumps. 3. Again, this is something that is more focussed on rebound where you monitor how the bike bounces back up front & rear. Compression is far more personal and there is not generic "rule of thumb" like this. Also, you do not stand on your footpeg when checking this, as you will then load the rear end more than the front. You should stand with the bike infront of you, one hand on the bar, one hand on the seat and push evenly to apply equal load front & rear, then see how it responds. Be sure to allow the bike to come back up unhindered by your inputs, but obviously hold it enough so it does not fall over. 4. High speed compression in the stock shock does nearly nothing and even the low speed compression adjuster is linked directly to the rebound, so does not work as well as it should. The dyno graphs below from Stoltech prove this.... Also, very little high speed compression will not cause the rear to collapse under acceleration mid-corner, acceleration is not "high speed" in terms of how quick the shock moves when it gets loaded up, well not unless to snap the throttle wide open from fully closed while in the power band...not something you should be doing mid corner anyway.  5. There is no such thing as 1 setting that is right. Suspension setup as a whole is very personal, and yes with some things like preload and rebound there are rules of thumb that help you get into the ball park, but it never has been and never will be "set & foget" for any setting, be it preload, rebound, geometry, anti-squat, etc, etc. It's constantly evolving and changing. Even making "small" changes to your bike like fitting new tyres can require a fair few changes to the suspension to make it work it's best for the change. |
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Post by thefinn on May 24, 2019 6:14:44 GMT -7
Damn, i really messed up my inch conversion didnt i?
However, all you say is true. I was aiming for a more "weekend warrior" look at it, not making things all too complicated. The bottom out part was a complete fail on my part, but it is however a bit higher up.
For myself, i usually just do the footpeg, although its not the 100% correct way, it gets me close enough to where im happy with it for the streets. Not planning on dragging knee anyday soon.
OP had his suspension tuned, and isnt yet very involved with suspension technology, thats why i told to leave the preaload and rebound be and just do the compression according to personal preference.
I assumed too much high speed would mess things up, as you put too little pressure on the "pressure release valve". Why wouldnt one just turn it all the way to the loosest point, if it doesnt kick in when you dont want to?
Yes, the high speed compression on this bike is garbage, you habe to turn a lot to make any kind of minor difference.
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vk
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Registered: Apr 19, 2019 20:36:08 GMT -7
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Post by vk on May 24, 2019 8:04:48 GMT -7
Friggin he!! I will be glad when that book arrives hahahaha..
Its not bad per say it's just a little harsh now that its tighten up. I can live with it and feels way better when leaned over. But here in Texas we love tar snakes, wash out pot holes and dead deer/skunks/armadillos etc so always gotta be prepared for that crap. Oh and every damn road in the state seems to be under construction so....
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mario
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Registered: Apr 4, 2018 4:44:17 GMT -7
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Post by mario on May 24, 2019 10:20:29 GMT -7
1. I assumed too much high speed would mess things up, as you put too little pressure on the "pressure release valve". Why wouldnt one just turn it all the way to the loosest point, if it doesnt kick in when you dont want to? 2. Yes, the high speed compression on this bike is garbage, you habe to turn a lot to make any kind of minor difference. 1. To clarify, it is not a pressure release valve, it is a needle that goes into a piston & shim stacks. If you are interested in seeing what I mean, google for pictures. High speed compression is as the title suggests, compression dampening adjustment when the shock is travelling at a high speed (not related to bike speed). For example if the shock compresses say 20mm in 0.1 seconds, it has to travel a lot faster than if it has to travel the same 20mm over a 2 second time frame. That is where high speed damping comes to play. High speed damping is generally only looked at when you have issues with the unsprung mass. For example, if the tyre carcass is VERY stiff and it hits a bump the tyre will not deflect, it will transfer the full force, instantly into the shock, the shock has to absorb that impact and move very suddenly and rapidly. However if you go over the same bump with a tyre that uses a soft carcass, then the tyre itself will deform slightly, before transferring energy to the shock in a slower, more controlled manner. The latter situation (with the softer carcass) will make for a less jarring ride. Now if you have tyres (just using tyres as an example because it's easy to understand) that are very stiff and when you go over a sudden bump it is very harsh, but when accelerating (slow speed compression) it is perfect, then that is where high speed compression can be used to fine tune things. So you can keep the perfect compression under acceleration, but eliminate the jarring, harsh ride when hitting a bump suddenly. 2. The high speed compression on the stock shock does nothing at all, well at least according to the dyno graphs above. Look closely at the bottom 3 graphs, they have made adjustments through the entire range, 1 click at a time and the line is EXACTLY the same every time, that is why the end result is just a thick black line, it's the same line on the graph laid upon itself over and over to create a thick dark line. The changes you see between the 3 graphs are a result of changes from the rebound and low speed compression, when the high speed was changed it did absolutely nothing. Now bear in mind Stoltec tested this on the Penske dyno at a speed of up to 10 inches / second (254mm per second). Nothing changed going full hard to full soft. High speed compression just does not work and does nothing more than look pretty on the stock shock. Friggin he!! I will be glad when that book arrives hahahaha.. Which book did you go for if you don't mind me asking? |
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Post by thefinn on May 24, 2019 12:30:41 GMT -7
Wow, i didnt know that, always nice with some new information! |
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vk
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Registered: Apr 19, 2019 20:36:08 GMT -7
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Post by vk on May 24, 2019 13:17:16 GMT -7
Sport bike tuning. Author was Andrew Trevitt (sp?)
Seems pretty detailed and comprehensive so.....
Figure worse case scenario I will man up and tackle the challenge from here on out or just come to an understanding that suspension work ain't for me!!
Have always worked on my own bikes but suspension stuff has been my ahhhhhh crap!!!! I dont know thing..lol. monkeyed around with one of my several dirt bikes back in the day and face planted on a smaller double jump. Ever since then just never took the time to learn.
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mario
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Registered: Apr 4, 2018 4:44:17 GMT -7
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Post by mario on May 24, 2019 14:36:18 GMT -7
Sport bike tuning. Author was Andrew Trevitt (sp?) Truth be told, that is a reasonable book to start with. It covers most topics, but in fairly basic detail. Good enough to get you on the right track at least and get you started. |
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vk
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Registered: Apr 19, 2019 20:36:08 GMT -7
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Post by vk on May 24, 2019 18:09:03 GMT -7
That's good to know!!
I appreciate the input guys. Suspension is one of those things where you cant know enough imo!!
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