Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Nov 3, 2018 15:09:48 GMT -7
Iv'e had my 10 now for 2 years and put some 20,000 k's on it. It's a stock bike with Cat and stock exhaust. For context on temps contained below - De-cats apparently run a fair bit cooler.
From day dot the fans have kicked in at 105 Degrees Celsius and in its first year it barely ever creep'ed over 106 while in thick traffic. As time passed 107 became the new norm for max temp on my bike while in traffic with a vary rare hit on 108 degrees, maybe once or twice that I noticed.
Last week I took her in for her 2 year service and after picking up the bike I was told one of the fans was not working? The parts are ordered but could take a month to get in from Japan.
On my ride home from that service I noticed the bike climbed to 113 degrees Celsius before making it's way down again. On a mid 24 degree day in Sydney it will now average around 108-109 and occasionally get to 112-113 before coming down again. That's quite a difference compared to temps I was getting before the service. Now... but only after the service it's having to work really hard to get temps down in the low hundreds while start stopping at lights. I imagine this is because one of the fans is not working or so I've been advised. Even once I'm on the go (60-80km/h) she seems to be running hotter than before.
I was told to keep riding her until parts come in but I'm concerned as I've got a nice ride coming up in two weeks and doubt parts will come in for months (previous experience with Yamaha parts in Aus). Outdoor temps in Sydney will have climbed another 10 degrees by then and be hitting well over 30 degrees.
Also, just checked coolant levels and they are below minimum.!!!
It's like I took it in for a service and paid money to have it messed up. Riding temps and coolant were just fine before the service.
Does anyone know what is considered too hot for the 10(engine/coolant temps) ? Does the MT-10 pop up a warning when temps get too high, if so at what temperature? Does this bike actually have 2 fans?
Any advise, guidance is appreciated.
Oh yeh and 15w50 yamalube is what Yamaha put in my bike, 2 years running. FYI. Fan continues to kick in at 105 degrees Celsius.
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Post by evitzee on Nov 3, 2018 15:52:47 GMT -7
You may some air in the system which will make it run hotter. Check that, and top up the coolant. I don't ride much in traffic but the highest I've seen is 102 C, and when travelling at speed it is 71 to 77 C depending on ambient temp. You should be ok on your trip as the fans are off when not in traffic. Your fans are starting late, they should come on at around 98 to 100 C. 113 C is very high, make sure you have no air in the system and top it off, I'll bet that solves the high temps.
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aussie
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Post by aussie on Nov 3, 2018 15:59:57 GMT -7
I'm in Qld and see up to 110 stuck in traffic on a hot day. Usually the fans will get it down quite quickly and it generally doesn't get above 108. Mine has 3000kms on it.
It's annoying the fans don't stay on after you shut down like my Z1000 did. I often stop for fuel (because of the bad fuel economy) and the fans will come up right away before I start meaning it has been sitting there hot for 5 minutes with no assisted cooling.
I read somewhere that some people have flashed the ECU to bring the fans on earlier but obviously that will affect warranty.
As long as you are likely not be sitting stuck in traffic for long periods it should be okay. Mine cools down real quick once I'm moving. Usually around 75 on the highway on a warm day.
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Nov 3, 2018 16:33:14 GMT -7
You may some air in the system which will make it run hotter. Check that, and top up the coolant. I don't ride much in traffic but the highest I've seen is 102 C, and when travelling at speed it is 71 to 77 C depending on ambient temp. You should be ok on your trip as the fans are off when not in traffic. Your fans are starting late, they should come on at around 98 to 100 C. 113 C is very high, make sure you have no air in the system and top it off, I'll bet that solves the high temps. Coolant was just replaced at 20,000 service. There is next to zero vertical movement on the coolant guide between cold and warm bike. Fans kicking in at 105 might be an Australian thing but it is apparently the norm for us. Happy for an Aussie rider to advise otherwise or @ what temps their fans kick in. Im in Sydney.
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Nov 3, 2018 16:37:20 GMT -7
I'm in Qld and see up to 110 stuck in traffic on a hot day. Usually the fans will get it down quite quickly and it generally doesn't get above 108. Mine has 3000kms on it. As long as you are likely not be sitting stuck in traffic for long periods it should be okay. Mine cools down real quick once I'm moving. Usually around 75 on the highway on a warm day. Yeh before the service that's how she ran. Struggles now to get temps down in the low hundreds, due to problem with fan(s).
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Post by evitzee on Nov 3, 2018 18:44:52 GMT -7
You may some air in the system which will make it run hotter. Check that, and top up the coolant. I don't ride much in traffic but the highest I've seen is 102 C, and when travelling at speed it is 71 to 77 C depending on ambient temp. You should be ok on your trip as the fans are off when not in traffic. Your fans are starting late, they should come on at around 98 to 100 C. 113 C is very high, make sure you have no air in the system and top it off, I'll bet that solves the high temps. Coolant was just replaced at 20,000 service. There is next to zero vertical movement on the coolant guide between cold and warm bike. Fans kicking in at 105 might be an Australian thing but it is apparently the norm for us. Happy for an Aussie rider to advise otherwise or @ what temps their fans kick in. Im in Sydney. Because you just had the coolant replaced is why you may have air in the system, never assume the shop did the job correctly. I highly doubt Australia specs call for a higher temperature point for the fans to start. 105 C (221 F) is very high for the fans to start.
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Nov 3, 2018 19:05:01 GMT -7
Coolant was just replaced at 20,000 service. There is next to zero vertical movement on the coolant guide between cold and warm bike. Fans kicking in at 105 might be an Australian thing but it is apparently the norm for us. Happy for an Aussie rider to advise otherwise or @ what temps their fans kick in. Im in Sydney. Because you just had the coolant replaced is why you may have air in the system, never assume the shop did the job correctly. I highly doubt Australia specs call for a higher temperature point for the fans to start. 105 C (221 F) is very high for the fans to start. Actually, I always assume the shop does everything incorrectly.. They’ve proven this theory almost every time. From loose nuts to misaligned chains to scratches on the bike to wrong size bolts aand wrong torque settings left, right and centre. Every time she goes in I fear something new will surface. Aussie is hitting 110 in traffic at peak so you would assume Fans are coming on around 105 for him as well. Queenslands a tad warmer than Sydney so it seems on par with mine. aussie can u confirm at what temp your fans kicking in?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2018 14:02:26 GMT -7
Unfortunately, it's really not. Also unfortunately, you can never tell in the great majority of vehicles due to having buffered coolant gauges, meaning they never move from 180 to 230/235ºF. I really doubt any fan (there're 2, one smaller than the other) comes on at 212ºF (100ºC); mine certainly doesn't, and bike is brand new, and both fans work. Last time I used my bike temp was at 220, and no fan was on before I shut it off. They typically come on right after that. Will pay attention next time how high it gets, out of curiosity. But anything above 230 I don't like. Vehicles are running hotter than before for emissions reasons, but engines are designed that way now. However, I didn't like seeing my coolant at 170ºF last time I used it; it shouldn't be like that at all. This is the first time I actually see that, since there should be a 185 or 190ºF thermostat in there. Can't imagine what the oil temperature is, especially with an air-to-oil oil cooler, if coolant is only 170. Oil should never dip below 180ºF, but that's exactly what happens with an air-to-oil oil cooler. Wish my bike had an oil temperature gauge too. Oh well. Oil below that temperature starts getting thicker, stressing more the engine to pump it, wasting fuel and power. And lubrication at higher rpm too. The good news is I don't like riding in cold weather, especially now that I have a naked bike with no weather protection at all, but it shouldn't be like that. I knew with an air-to-oil oil cooler it'd dip below optimal temp, but never imagined coolant would dip below 185, since the EPA for sure wouldn't approve. Will research what kind of thermostat we have in there, and what temp it should open. Doubt there's anything more complicated than that, like on freaking Porsches.
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aussie
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Post by aussie on Nov 4, 2018 14:33:20 GMT -7
Yep, next ride I'll see if I can catch when they come on. It's pretty quiet so hopefully I can hear or feel it. We have a few days at 36C (97F) at the moment so it shouldn't take long. From memory fans usually kicked in around 103-105. It's higher than I'm comfortable with but I assume Yamaha know what they are doing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2018 14:47:31 GMT -7
Your bike seems perfectly normal brother; you're just getting used to seeing real temperatures, rather than the needle/gauge always parked in the middle, thinking coolant temperature was constant. It never is on any vehicle. And yes, Yamaha doesn't want their fans to burn out at 10K miles. Ha ha. Ideally, coolant and oil temperatures would always be at the optimal 190/212 respectively, but it's just not possible. Also keep in mind motorcycles do not produce charge at idle due to having a generator, not an alternator, so having the fan running that much more at idle actually discharges the battery. What you can do to check the fans is let the bike idle when you get home, and wait until they come on, see if one or both are on, and note the temp. The larger one is easily heard at idle at a stop light but only without earplugs. When I'm going to be on the freeway, I always get earplugs. But since I'm breaking my bike in at city speeds, I'm not wearing any to become accostumed to what noises are normal on this bike. Once I put earplugs on, won't hear much, but I already know in case of future trouble/changes. Will leave my bike with the coolant temp, rather than ambient temp, and pay attention when exactly fans kick in so we can compare . Take care.
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exuptoy
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Post by exuptoy on Nov 5, 2018 15:53:20 GMT -7
From the guy at my local dyno centre he says that UK bike temp switches kicks in at 105 and they usually drop it 5-10 degrees with a flash so it kicks in earlier as they do run warm, but they are designed for it. Can your dealer not drop the cut in temp until the new fan arrives?
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Post by evitzee on Nov 5, 2018 16:35:53 GMT -7
I was just looking at my old FZ1 manual which had a lot more data than the FZ-10 manual, but even though the engines are different beasts the coolant capacities are the same and operating temperatures should be similar. It states that for the FZ1 as long as the temp stays below 116 C (241 F) you are 'ok'. So if you are topping out at 113 C on the MT-10 in traffic and slow riding you are within range. Don't know how much of this slow riding you are doing (not really the MT-10's forte) but when you are up to speed the temps should drop quite a bit and the fans are off anyway. I don't think the dealer would want to fool around with cutting the start temp for the fans, they don't like to fool around with stuff like this. I'm not even sure if they would know how. You can always ask.
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Nov 7, 2018 13:00:10 GMT -7
From the guy at my local dyno centre he says that UK bike temp switches kicks in at 105 and they usually drop it 5-10 degrees with a flash so it kicks in earlier as they do run warm, but they are designed for it. Can your dealer not drop the cut in temp until the new fan arrives? You would think they could but they won’t.
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Nov 7, 2018 13:02:49 GMT -7
I was just looking at my old FZ1 manual which had a lot more data than the FZ-10 manual, but even though the engines are different beasts the coolant capacities are the same and operating temperatures should be similar. It states that for the FZ1 as long as the temp stays below 116 C (241 F) you are 'ok'. So if you are topping out at 113 C on the MT-10 in traffic and slow riding you are within range. Don't know how much of this slow riding you are doing (not really the MT-10's forte) but when you are up to speed the temps should drop quite a bit and the fans are off anyway. I don't think the dealer would want to fool around with cutting the start temp for the fans, they don't like to fool around with stuff like this. I'm not even sure if they would know how. You can always ask. Slow riding is all I can do before I get to freeways...at least an hour out from decent roads, ‘yes, dealers don’t want to drop fan starting temps. thanks for the heads up on FZ1.
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Nov 8, 2018 21:54:06 GMT -7
Just back from getting fan replaced and coolant topped up.
It’s a 22 degree day in Sydney and on my ride home back from dealership Temps got as high as 111 dc.
Pulled up at home and recorded this...
Somethings wrong...
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Post by evitzee on Nov 8, 2018 22:21:03 GMT -7
How much slow riding did you do before taking the video? Even in cool ambient temps the temperature will pop up if you do much of any slow speed riding. The better question is what are the temps when you are travelling 100 kph+ ? Don't focus on how high the temps are in slow speed conditions. Modern bikes are NOT happy poking along in traffic or idling in your driveway, they just aren't designed for that type of operation. At normal speeds you should be seeing temps in the 80 C range.
I think you are worrying about a non issue.
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Nov 8, 2018 23:11:25 GMT -7
Was about 70% at 90km/h and 30% at 60km/hour
Outdoor temps 22dc.
Lol....I don’t have the luxury of doing 100km/h until I’m a good 30-60mins out of SYDNEY.
My bike was fine and happy poking along in traffic...up until my last service.
And so I think I’ll continue to work towards getting it back into the shape she was in for the past 2 years.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2018 23:44:57 GMT -7
I'd say so too. Went for a ride the other day, at your same temperature (actually 75ºF), and my temp was in the high 160s. Don't like it that low, but it is what it is. Even in traffic, it shouldn't get above 223 or so with only 72 ambient temperature, since that's when at least one fan kicks in (probably the large one). Did you check if at least one fan was on? You need to do that. And check the fuses. But at that cool temperature, the fan should prevent the temp to go any higher than the trigger point. What was exactly done to your bike at the service? That's why I avoid like the plague taking my vehicles to a dealer. Now my stupid bike has a CEL, so might have to take it in (depending what it is), but if I have to, will remove everything needed, so dealer only touches what is absolutely necessary. And I'd check everything afterwards before putting the plastic back. That dealer put bad gas on my bike and overfilled the oil with about 1/2-qt over, so quite a bit. If they can't even do that right, how can I trust them for something more serious? I don't. Ha ha. Good luck.
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aussie
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Post by aussie on Nov 9, 2018 3:16:56 GMT -7
What temp are you getting in flowing traffic in the 60 to 80 km/h range? Mine is around 80 to mid 90's Celsius and down in the 70's on the highway. Parked in the driveway after a ride it would creep up that high without air flowing through the rad.
Also, for our overseas friends, Sydney traffic is horrible.
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Nov 9, 2018 12:39:49 GMT -7
What temp are you getting in flowing traffic in the 60 to 80 km/h range? Mine is around 80 to mid 90's Celsius and down in the 70's on the highway. Parked in the driveway after a ride it would creep up that high without air flowing through the rad. Also, for our overseas friends, Sydney traffic is horrible. In the 60-70k/h range after stand still in traffic it will hold between 99-103’ish. If I get it up to 90 and get a decent run like yesterday (10 mins free) then 90degrees is the lowest it came down to... Mine would get as high as 107 in the past(parked) but then get temps back down to 99 quickly and the fans would then cut off until it crept back up to 105. Fans are now on constantly in slow moving traffic as they can’t get temps down below cut off point. As seen in my vid grab stuck on 108 in that instance. ‘Dropped it off again this morning. Service guys will be keeping bike for a few days. They have advised temps are too high for current outdoor temps in Syd and will look to get it resolved.
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