I've actually been looking at doing the same on my 10. I can't get the lever firm no matter how much I bleed it. I can pull the lever to the bar. Tried to do that to an r1 at the dealer, couldn't even manage to get past 3/4 of the lever pull. I have the soltec kit coming in a couple weeks time. If it still isn't great il be looking at some m50s. I'm just hoping the abs doesn't freak out with the master and lines like my z1000 did initially. Will post here if the m50s will fit or if I find some other good calipers.
I can't get the lever firm no matter how much I bleed it. I can pull the lever to the bar.
No offense, but that has nothing to do with the hardware man. The master cylinder, calipers, pistons, etc. are not compressible. Different hardware might give you better feel, better bite, more leverage (less lever effort), etc., but if your lever touches the handlebar, you have air in the system, spongy lines, or both. With a new bike, you must have some air in the system. You need to let an expert fix that before moving to anything else, since it'd be the exact same problem no matter which hardware you put. Most folks have enough with braided lines and better pads, and unless you're an aggressive track rat, it should be enough for you too . Good luck.
The soltec kit is a kit from soltec moto that comes with the master, braided lines, fittings, res, etc. Everything you need for the brakes. I've taken the bike in to Yamaha before for the brakes and they have bled them and same result. I've done brake bleeds at home over the course of months myself and it still squishy. I get no air coming from the callipers at all. The only thing that could be doing it is the master, but for some reason the stock master doesn't have a bleeder on it. I've even tried bleeding at the fittings then bleeding the valves again, same result.
Plus to top it all off I'm having trouble with my front left and back bleeder vavle. Everytime I bleed them, they leak fluid out from the threads, the back worse than the front. The front right doesn't do it no matter how far or little I open it. Once close they don't leak but when the brakes get hot they leak the remainder of the fluid that was stuck in the threads. The soltec kit comes with speed bleeders too so hopefully that will fix that. Yamaha have no idea what's up and told me to keep an eye on it and that's it.
Okay, first off bud, welcome to working on bikes. You seem to have much to learn. And I'm being serious, maybe a little endearing.
Speed bleeders CAN be " convenient " but so over rated. They can be more a liability, and in my humble opinion have less control for solo bleeding operations compared to regular bleeder valves. Speed bleeders rely on tape / thread dope to keep a seal whilst the bottom of the valve's threaded shaft is un-seated from the bottom of the caliper's threaded hole, which is needed to allow for the speed bleed function. Always the potential for air to get in thete. Traditional bleeder valves and their methods always have high, positive pressure when you crack them open then close them. And fluid at the threads? Thats a good thing. Fluid escaped, air likely didn't get in. Fair trade. Make sure it's nice n tight after the job then douse the whole caliper with hot soapy water then thoroughly rinse it with a garden hose. That's proper home mechanics. And the front caliper that dorsn't have escaping fluid? All mass produced parts are going to have ever so slightly varying tollerances. That one particular caliper ( more likely the bleeder valve as it's even more mass produced with even more loose tollerances ) might have better thread seal. Or you didn't have enough pressure in the system when you bled it, ie air got in. I've never bled a system and didn't have fluid coming from the bleeder valve threads. That's why you wedge or zip-ti paper towels all around anything that fluid can come out of.
And the oem master won't have a bleeder, it isn't a performance part like the R1's. Speaking of which, even after the R1 master swap, stoltech's stainless line kit and multiple proper bleeds with cracks at each connection point, I too still have sub-par lever feel at a stand still compared to a stock showroom R1, yes I made that same observation. My conclusion? IDFK. Logic says air in the system. Doubtful as I am. Only way for me to tell is to have a " professional " bleed job at a yamaha dealership with them using all the expensive devices and software.
Last Edit: Feb 7, 2019 21:50:29 GMT -7 by lastwish
Yeh I'm holding off on the kit for the time being, will take it to a brake and clutch shop and have them do a hydraulic pressure bleed or whatever it's called. Hopefully that will sort it out. The reason I mentioned the leaking threads is becauae once the bleeders are closed it doesn't leak, even with brake applied. But mid ride il have fluid leaking down my left calliper. It always leaks a certain amount and then stops, might try some Teflon tape around the threads then bleed again.
Would I be able to take a heat gun or hair dryer to the left calliper to heat it up afterwards? In order to get the fluid to leak out then and there and not mid ride?
Post by ghostrider1127 on Feb 8, 2019 2:20:06 GMT -7
First of all the ABS modules are , Bosch for r1 and Advics for Mt10 . Second , you´ll need the Yamaha dealer tool for bleed the ABS module (otherwise no possible) but that´s not really in need if you did not keyed on the bike during working on the brake system. Third ,if your riding skill is good , when you are ready take your bike in a parking lot (or area with no traffic) hard brake ,searching to lock the wheels and let the ABS work do it for 6-7 times front and 6-7 times rear . So the micro bubbles ,may trapped , come loose . Back home bleed another time the whole.
Rando shops won't be able to acuate the abs module.
For the fluid that seeps out, of course press in a paper towel all around then like I suggested before hot soapy water, part of it aimed at the bleeder valve, then rinsed with regular water like from a hose. That way, you know for a fact no brake fluid that was already outside the bleeder valve is there anymore. And if fluid still apears duribg a ride, you have just objectifiably proven it's coming from inside the system, a leak, and not just residual stuck in the crevaces.
If that is the case, replace the bleeder valve.
Still leaking? Then your caliper threaded hole or the seat at it's bottom is deffective. Either have it replaced ( hopefully through warranty ) , or you can try teflon tape around the bleeder valve. Lol, talking about " unorthodox " solutions like thread tape or the like gets some people all flared up.
Normally I blast the area with brake clean once I'm done. I've even tied the lever down over night with towels and stuff around it and it didn't leak. But the second the brakes heat up, it leaks. But as I said, it leaks a certain amount, usually half a teaspoon maybe, and then it doesn't leak any more. That's why I'm thinking it's just the fluid that was stuck in the thread.
Oh and I had a look at the valves last night at home. The exposed thread of the left and rear caliper looks the same, the front right looks different,thicker if anything. The right one also has much less thread above the caliper than the other two. Could they have just put 2 incorrect bleeder valves on during assembly? Would make sense since the two that look the same leak during bleeding, but the odd one out is fine.
Brake cleaner has acetone, and some other agents very harmful to finish on the calipers and their seals not to mention overspray onto other parts. It's a commonly discouraged practice, use hot soapy water instead. I use cheap firm brisstle toothbrushes too to get around the caliper pots.
That much leaking is way more than could ever be trapped in the threads or even under the rubber keeper cap.
The two bleeder valves being different is indeed very odd. It sounds to me like someone dicked it up. You really need to post some pics.
Il try post some when I get home from work today. Last night I tried to bleed the rear again, got it feeling good but it leaked out the threads like no tomorrow. So I just took the bleeder out and wrapped some Teflon tape arou d the threads and bled it again, no leaking... May have to do that for the front one too.
As said, half a teaspoon is way more than could be stuck in the threads. I recently switched to the R1 master and after the bleed and an overnight tie back of the lever (yes I believe that is a good thing that provides results) I have a great lever and a maximum of 1 1/4 movement at the very end of the lever and it comes nowhere near the bars. Also remember when comparing Mt to R1, the R1 also has SS lines as well as the better Master. I must admit it sounds like you still have air in the system.
Bleeders and especially oem bleeders on a modern bike like ours just don't leak like that. Manufacturers like Yamaha have a LOT of scrutiny put on them when it comes to safety, most of all their braking systems. An oem bleeder in an oem caliper that can't be over 2 years old and hasn't been removed and then cross-threaded will not leak like that. All braking systems go though multiple quality control tests before leaving the factory.
There's got to be more variables you aren't telling us. Or perhaps you aren't torquing the bleeder down tight enough. And with all this fluid coming out keep an eye on your reservoir levels.
To be totally honest bud, and please I sincerely mean no offense, there are very serious reasons why some would suggest you let a competant bike shop handle this kind of problem. Brakes are not something you can make a mistake with. I say take it to a yamaha dealership, and learn up on brakes to do it yourself next time.
Last Edit: Feb 11, 2019 16:49:56 GMT -7 by lastwish
So I was thinking. Maybe the abs module has something to do with the stationary lever feel? It's the only thing left in the system that's different to the R1. On my nike at least. Not counting calipers.
EVERYTHING within the system is a factor on every aspect of braking feel/performance, especially with ABS modules involved... BUT there's just ONE thing tying it all together, and it should be just brake fluid, as in no air whatsoever in the system. If there's any, it doesn't matter how good the hardware is because it won't work properly. It's also worth remembering the entire brake system is designed and tested as a unit. I'd NEVER change just parts of it, with the exception of cables and pads (not considered hardware for system purposes), but to each his own. And as you mentioned, if something is not working right with the brakes, and can't make it right, it's time to leave it to the pros, for your own safety .
Just a bit of an update on my end here. I decided to forgo the retrofit for now since it seems I somehow managed to get better feel and a bit more firmness. If someone could explain to be what happened I'm all ears.
Basically my lever was squishy as I mentioned in previous posts. I went on a ride with some people who were all on adv bikes. At one stage they went down some dirt roads and I followed. Was an experience il tell yah. My abs was going crazy the whole way any time I touched the brakes, front or rear. The next day I immediately noticed both levers felt more firm in the garage and they got even firmer a few minutes into my commute.
Could the abs kicking on so much on the dirt have anythi g to do with this change? Maybe cycled some air bubbles caught in the lines?
Not sure if this helps or not, but give that a try. Find a grassy field and have some fun braking on it and get the abs pump working a bit, see if it improves.