Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2018 11:02:18 GMT -7
That is a trait I didn't want to see on my brand new 2017 bike, but yet again, like many previous bikes, it freaking has it. And I HATE that. Yesterday took it out for a spin, and it actually stalled the first time... and it was 70º outside. Can't imagine what it'd be like at near freezing. Geez. I'm sad to say this is the worst bike in that regard. My BMWs were like that but they stalled at much colder temperatures, not at freaking 70. The other times it started really low (but not hard starts), then took a few seconds for high-idle to kick in, then all was normal after that. Yesterday it started like that at the second attempt, which it was surprising too, since my BMWs at least started perfectly fine the second time after stalling. My question to the gang is: Is yours the same or not? Please describe your morning starts, including approximate temperature, for proper context.
Now, some details. I fueled up yesterday (Shell premium -only 91 available here), so all the previous starts were on whatever the dealer put into my bike. Second, battery was fully charged before all starts. And third, all previous starts were without disengaging the clutch. Don't know how much of a factor it is in slowing down the starter, but from now on will start it with the clutch disengaged, like some bikes force you to do but not this one. Hope things improve to at least the level of previous bikes, which only stalled near freezing temperatures. Not aware of any TSBs on that regard. In fact, the only TSB I found was on earlier bikes (mine was not affected) that you got a sidestand fault if you took too long to turn the key from off to on. I just don't understand why bikes can't get cold fueling right, when all cars with EFI since decades ago start immediately when cold. By the way, bike starts perfectly fine when hot, so just a cold issue. So let's see if this is an issue for others, and what (if anything) you've done about it.
Finally, since there're no TSBs or any other known issues with the fueling (other than the normal-by-now lean settings mandated by the EPA), the only other possible issue (if there's one) has to be a bad sensor, but wouldn't I get a CEL? And/or bike would run like crap all the time, no? And it's only in the mornings, just like most other hard-to-start bikes I've owned (about 2 dozen by now). All my other bikes with that behavior were deemed 'normal', by the way, so just lived with it. Hope the new fuel and disengaging clutch will have a positive effect on that. Will keep you posted. Thanks gang.
JC
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scuba77
New Member
If you're cleaning you're not riding
Posts: 46
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Registered: Jun 26, 2018 14:11:07 GMT -7
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Post by scuba77 on Oct 26, 2018 11:39:07 GMT -7
My FZ10 has started first time every time from about 40F to 100F rain or dry. Have put about 9800 miles in about a year and a half. No engine or electrical mods. Try running some SeaFoam through the system to clean it out.
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Post by papawheelie on Oct 26, 2018 11:59:43 GMT -7
Yeah, same here. I’ve never (not once) experienced anything that resembled hard starting or stalling. 10,000+ miles in the past 12 months.
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Post by achrista on Oct 26, 2018 12:12:19 GMT -7
The first year of the current gen R6s had starter issues. I haven't heard of anything in that vein with the MT-10's. I would contact the dealer if you think there's something abnormal happening.
There should be absolutely no climate-induced issues at 70. I'm starting with no problem in the 40's here.
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landmark518
Full Member
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Post by landmark518 on Oct 26, 2018 13:15:17 GMT -7
Started up no problem in 40 degree weather after not riding for a couple months (yes I know, same on me..life happens tho)
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Post by evitzee on Oct 26, 2018 13:16:24 GMT -7
Ditto what other's have said, zero issues starting and has never stalled after starting. Since your bike is probably two years old it may have a bit of gunk in the fuel system that needs to be worked out. If it doesn't right itself you may want the dealer to do a check on the throttle body synchronization, it could be off. At the end of each ride I use Fuel Med Rx (Yamaha sold product); one ounce into the fuel tank which is supposed to stabilize the ethanol and keep the fuel fresh. Have used it for years on various bikes and have never had any fuel issues, even over the winter months when the bike may sit for weeks on end.
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Post by clayton on Oct 26, 2018 13:23:42 GMT -7
No hard starting on my 2018 with 2000 miles on it. Always start it before I get on the bike and never touch the clutch. Are you holding the starter button down long enough for it to start or you just holding it down for a second and letting it go? I have caught myself sometimes pushing it down and letting it up to quick and the motor will turn over a couple times and not fire off. You gotta keep holding it down till it actually starts up.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2018 14:21:24 GMT -7
Thanks guys. It's quite obvious already my bike is the issue, and not 'the nature of the beast', like the others. And yes, I'm starting it the correct way, holding the switch down until the engine actually starts. If it happens again on the next start, then bad fuel will be out the window. And would be dealing with a partially clogged fuel ssytem, most likely. At that point, would buy a bottle of Techron and see what happens. Just hung up with the salesman, and told him what's happening, to see if they'd give me the product above since it should be a warranty issue. But if they don't want to (most likely), would just buy the Techron and give it a shot. Haven't flogged the bike at all, just doing city riding for now, which is best for break-in. Yesterday put a couple of dozen miles, so odo reads 69 now. Glad to hear it's not normal behavior. Hopefully my bike will exhibit healthy starts soon. I'm sure whatever is happening is the result of sitting at dealer for over a year, even though they never fueled it until I bought it. Otherwise, I'd have passed, precisely for fear of fueling issues... but at least this bike was local (unlike the others), so have more leverage if the issue persists. Crossing fingers it was just the fuel, and it starts fine next time. Thanks again gang, and will keep you posted.
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Post by clayton on Oct 26, 2018 14:49:45 GMT -7
Thanks guys. It's quite obvious already my bike is the issue, and not 'the nature of the beast', like the others. And yes, I'm starting it the correct way, holding the switch down until the engine actually starts. If it happens again on the next start, then bad fuel will be out the window. And would be dealing with a partially clogged fuel ssytem, most likely. At that point, would buy a bottle of Techron and see what happens. Just hung up with the salesman, and told him what's happening, to see if they'd give me the product above since it should be a warranty issue. But if they don't want to (most likely), would just buy the Techron and give it a shot. Haven't flogged the bike at all, just doing city riding for now, which is best for break-in. Yesterday put a couple of dozen miles, so odo reads 69 now. Glad to hear it's not normal behavior. Hopefully my bike will exhibit healthy starts soon. I'm sure whatever is happening is the result of sitting at dealer for over a year, even though they never fueled it until I bought it. Otherwise, I'd have passed, precisely for fear of fueling issues... but at least this bike was local (unlike the others), so have more leverage if the issue persists. Crossing fingers it was just the fuel, and it starts fine next time. Thanks again gang, and will keep you posted. I use motoman’s break in method. Easy riding on a new engine is the worst thing you can do. You’ll never get a good piston ring to cylinder seal. www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm |
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Deleted
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Registered: Apr 24, 2024 2:47:05 GMT -7
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2018 16:29:30 GMT -7
My take on break-in is this. Manufacturers might not always be completely right on their recommendations. But extremely rarely they're dead wrong, and that's exactly what they'd have to be if that method was right. And we're talking about right for the STREET, since that method reportedly gains a handful of HP, so maybe a good approach for a racing engine... but those get rebuilt every 2 to 3 races. If you want your street engine to last tens of thousands of miles, I would listen to the manufacturer, at least for the most part. What I do for seating the rings properly is lots of engine braking after loading the engine to the max rpm allowed (6K). Works for me, but to each his own. Now an update folks. Just came back from a short ride, and have good news. Bike started much better, but need to do if it's normal, or still has to get better. It started fine, but rpm still a bit low for a cold engine, since it was below idle, but not much (around 1,100 to 1,200 rpm). Stayed there for a few seconds, then went up higher, around 1,500 rpm. Then gradually down to idle, which is around 1,200 on my bike (specs say 1,200 to 1,400 rpm). Didn't pull the clutch, since nobody here does, and wanted to be equal in circumstances. My question to the gang is this: Does your engine go to high idle (and how many rpm) right away, or behaves like mine? Need to know if my issue is fixed, or still need to run a strong fuel system additive. Since dealer never put fuel on my bike until I bought it, I honestly doubt there's anything wrong with my fuel system, but could be wrong. No other leftover owner has complained of my issue, so most likely it was bad fuel. Let's hear from some of you  . Thanks gang. |
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Post by clayton on Oct 26, 2018 18:51:11 GMT -7
My take on break-in is this. Manufacturers might not always be completely right on their recommendations. But extremely rarely they're dead wrong, and that's exactly what they'd have to be if that method was right. And we're talking about right for the STREET, since that method reportedly gains a handful of HP, so maybe a good approach for a racing engine... but those get rebuilt every 2 to 3 races. If you want your street engine to last tens of thousands of miles, I would listen to the manufacturer, at least for the most part. What I do for seating the rings properly is lots of engine braking after loading the engine to the max rpm allowed (6K). Works for me, but to each his own. Now an update folks. Just came back from a short ride, and have good news. Bike started much better, but need to do if it's normal, or still has to get better. It started fine, but rpm still a bit low for a cold engine, since it was below idle, but not much (around 1,100 to 1,200 rpm). Stayed there for a few seconds, then went up higher, around 1,500 rpm. Then gradually down to idle, which is around 1,200 on my bike (specs say 1,200 to 1,400 rpm). Didn't pull the clutch, since nobody here does, and wanted to be equal in circumstances. My question to the gang is this: Does your engine go to high idle (and how many rpm) right away, or behaves like mine? Need to know if my issue is fixed, or still need to run a strong fuel system additive. Since dealer never put fuel on my bike until I bought it, I honestly doubt there's anything wrong with my fuel system, but could be wrong. No other leftover owner has complained of my issue, so most likely it was bad fuel. Let's hear from some of you . Thanks gang. Mine takes a few seconds to go to high idle on a cold start up |
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Post by heathhudnall on Oct 27, 2018 8:08:05 GMT -7
Bike starts fine everytime.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2018 13:01:37 GMT -7
Mine takes a few seconds to go to high idle on a cold start up Awesome news; thanks a million for that info. That means my bike should be fine now, even though it still has some bad fuel in there, since it only took 3.4 gallons. Next tank should have mostly good fuel. It also needs a good run, which I hope to give it before winter sets in. In the mean time, will continue with short trips to break her in nicely, now that weather turned nice again. It has 78 miles now. Will put some more today . Enjoy your weekend gang. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2018 11:53:16 GMT -7
Took it for another ride, and it fired up even better now, starting at around 1,400 rpm, then after a few seconds went to high idle, this time close to 2K rpm, then back down. I'm fully confident bike is perfectly fine, even with a bit of bad fuel still in there. And after giving it a good run (hopefully soon), it should be better. I don't think it's needed to run any fuel cleaner, right? Premium fuel has better cleaning additives, and after a good run, it should get rid of any deposits formed after factory fired it up 15 months before I bought it.
Finally, no more 1-N shifts on this ride. I got a few before, so I obviously need to shift more positively on this bike, and that's what I'm doing now. I also don't like the noises the tranny makes when shifting without the clutch and closing the throttle (on other bikes there was no noise at all), and also don't like how jerky the QS is, so from now on, will always upshift using the clutch (which still makes noise, but at least I know I'm not screwing anything up), and only use the QS when shifting at higher rpm and throttle openings, to minimize tranny wear. And will also always shift positively, which could have been an issue on some QS shifts, that maybe were made without the QS due to not enough force to detect it. But even with plenty of force they're jerky, especially in lower gears. I've never done a 1-2 QS shift, and don't plan to. They're always even jerkier, at least on my previous bikes. The beauty of a cable clutch is it has no delay, like all my previous bikes with hydraulic clutch, hence my upshifting without the clutch on thosse (when closing the throttle). Got used to it, but will get rid of that custom. Enjoy your Sunday gang.
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Post by papawheelie on Oct 28, 2018 12:15:25 GMT -7
I rarely use my QS. Just every now and then when getting on the freeway ramp and such. Higher RPMs and plenty of throttle results in perfectly smooth shifts on my girl, and a little grin inside my helmet. I’ve also heard that QS 1-2 may not be the best idea, but I’ve never had an issue. QS 1-2 is as smooth as any other gear change. Flick it up positively and deliberately, and she makes it happen every time, in my experience. 👍🏽🤠
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2018 12:20:26 GMT -7
Higher RPMs and plenty of throttle results in perfectly smooth shifts on my girl, and a little grin inside my helmet. QS 1-2 is as smooth as any other gear change. Flick it up positively and deliberately, and she makes it happen every time👍🏽🤠 Thank you for that input brother. Good to hear. Right now I'm only going revving her to 6K (due to break-in), and it's a lot smoother there than when I tried it first around 4K, so won't do it that low anymore. Once break-in is over, I'll be able to try shifting at higher rpm, where the QS should shine indeed. Can't wait, but only at 97 now . But those 97 have been the best miles for break-in, so happy with that. Take care. |
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. Thanks gang.