Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Feb 28, 2018 22:21:26 GMT -7
Have wanted to go with a mid pipe (decat) but I'm worried about some stuff....waking the dead noise levels maybe? Also do a ton of pillion'ing and the DB's might be a deal breaker for my wife, not to mention the added attention it brings to law enforcement and probably edgy neighbors. I have thought about a different end can but I can't see how changing the stock one is going to result in anything more than an absolute minor improvement. I don't care about changing the look of the can and I actually think the stock one looks fine. So for > $1000 AUD it's just not worth going with a different can only. Enter the midpipe.....most people I've spoken to seem to report the same thing, eventually. That is, after a while, you will start using ear plugs or go back to stock setup. I do a variety of riding, anything from inner city to suburbia, to weekend touring and I sometimes go out real early. Youtube video's are a waste of time and not a dealership in Sydney has a mid pipe + decat for me to try. Whilst I love a loud pipe some bikes actually piss me off(not most, just some) when they fly by...I don't want to be that guy. I've heard reference to the term silencer in the past and that's somewhat confusing for a new rider like myself. I assume this was because back when there was no CAT, silencing was it's job? And so I have 2 questions, maybe 3. 1.) What is the best SILENCER on the market today for a De Cat setup? (something that achieves middle ground - somewhere between Cat -------> De Cat) 2.) If the Exup valve is considered important by many then why not have an option to keep it with a Decat setup? Wouldn't this also help mitigate some of the excessive noise down low. 3.) Can the Exup valve still be used with the Akrapovic Mid pipe ?  Is that an Exup valve option? |
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Post by RedAndBlack on Mar 1, 2018 1:01:57 GMT -7
1.) What is the best SILENCER on the market today for a De Cat setup? (something that achieves middle ground - somewhere between Cat -------> De Cat) My interpretation of the silencer is the baffle inside of the muffler. For my delkelvic and a lot of other aftermarket exhausts this is a removable piece that you can take out of the exhaust which will make the exhaust louder. 2.) If the Exup valve is considered important by many then why not have an option to keep it with a Decat setup? Wouldn't this also help mitigate some of the excessive noise down low. Exup valve, at least to me, isn't considered "important" yes there is the issue of reduced back pressure that may cause a drop in some HP or torque at low RPM, but in a non race bike, I consider this negligible. In 3 bikes I've owned that I removed the EXUP, I hardly noticed any change in power in the time between removal and an ECU flash. After ECU Flash, definitely nothing.
Additionally, this bike had BY FAR the loudest deacceleration popping of any bike I've owned. There is no way I would've maintained the aftermarket exhaust without a tune or at least block off plates to help mitigate this. I bring this up because your wife will DEFINITELY not be able to ride on the back of the bike with that exhaust popping of the non stock exhaust, so you would likely get a tune, which in turn should work out the power loss from the removal of the exup valve. 3.) Can the Exup valve still be used with the Akrapovic Mid pipe ? Not to my knowledge. I THINK The piece that you're pointing to is an extra O2 sensor port for an autotuner or something of that type of technology.since the exup valve is on the stock midpipe, you would remove the valve when you remove the stock midpipe, rendering the exup system useless |
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owle
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Post by owle on Mar 1, 2018 2:10:56 GMT -7
Some thing else to consider , copy and paste from my answer on the UK MT site :
I gutted the original cat box, and use the original end can, removed the exup and had a ecu flash and custum remap at junction 33 near Lancaster, it was running lean with the the cats removed. Its not the best set up if you want to increase the maximum BHP, think i gained 4 or 5 HP, but through the rev range it is much improved.
As for the noise level with this set up, louder than standard but not as loud as the aftermarket decat pipes i have heard which are just to loud for me, and i'm a fan of meaty sounding bikes.
Plenty of second hand cat box's come up for sale, and its not that difficult to knock the cats out, just lots of brute force.
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av8er
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If my bike could travel at the speed of light, would my headlights work?
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Post by av8er on Mar 1, 2018 8:26:55 GMT -7
1.) What is the best SILENCER on the market today for a De Cat setup? (something that achieves middle ground - somewhere between Cat -------> De Cat) My interpretation of the silencer is the baffle inside of the muffler. For my delkelvic and a lot of other aftermarket exhausts this is a removable piece that you can take out of the exhaust which will make the exhaust louder. 2.) If the Exup valve is considered important by many then why not have an option to keep it with a Decat setup? Wouldn't this also help mitigate some of the excessive noise down low. Exup valve, at least to me, isn't considered "important" yes there is the issue of reduced back pressure that may cause a drop in some HP or torque at low RPM, but in a non race bike, I consider this negligible.
Additionally, this bike had BY FAR the loudest deacceleration popping of any bike I've owned. There is no way I would've maintained the aftermarket exhaust without a tune or at least block off plates to help mitigate this. I bring this up because your wife will DEFINITELY not be able to ride on the back of the bike with that exhaust popping of the non stock exhaust, so you would likely get a tune, which in turn should work out the power loss from the removal of the exup valve. 3.) Can the Exup valve still be used with the Akrapovic Mid pipe ? Not to my knowledge. I THINK The piece that you're pointing to is an extra O2 sensor port for an autotuner or something of that type of technology.since the exup valve is on the stock midpipe, you would remove the valve when you remove the stock midpipe, rendering the exup system useless Exactly right. The only thing I would add is the O2 port is to install a single "wideband" instead of the two stock narrow bands. And yes, it is required for use of either the autotune or active tune of FTECU. Graves EVO uses a mid pipe with a larger exup valve also providing a wide band port to use with the active tune which constantly is correcting fuel values for change in altitude, temperature, ect. After several different setups, the EVO from Graves although not cheap, is the best to me for low end torque, high end power and quieter leaving the neighborhood. |
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Mar 1, 2018 14:58:01 GMT -7
Additionally, this bike had BY FAR the loudest deacceleration popping of any bike I've owned. There is no way I would've maintained the aftermarket exhaust without a tune or at least block off plates to help mitigate this. I bring this up because your wife will DEFINITELY not be able to ride on the back of the bike with that exhaust popping of the non stock exhaust, so you would likely get a tune, which in turn should work out the power loss from the removal of the exup valve. That's a really good peice of information, thanks. |
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Mar 1, 2018 15:01:07 GMT -7
Some thing else to consider , copy and paste from my answer on the UK MT site : I gutted the original cat box, and use the original end can, removed the exup and had a ecu flash and custum remap at junction 33 near Lancaster, it was running lean with the the cats removed. Its not the best set up if you want to increase the maximum BHP, think i gained 4 or 5 HP, but through the rev range it is much improved. As for the noise level with this set up, louder than standard but not as loud as the aftermarket decat pipes i have heard which are just to loud for me, and i'm a fan of meaty sounding bikes. Plenty of second hand cat box's come up for sale, and its not that difficult to knock the cats out, just lots of brute force. Something I'l need to consider, you seemed to have found a middle ground. |
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Mar 1, 2018 15:06:10 GMT -7
Exactly right. The only thing I would add is the O2 port is to install a single "wideband" instead of the two stock narrow bands. And yes, it is required for use of either the autotune or active tune of FTECU. Graves EVO uses a mid pipe with a larger exup valve also providing a wide band port to use with the active tune which constantly is correcting fuel values for change in altitude, temperature, ect. After several different setups, the EVO from Graves although not cheap, is the best to me for low end torque, high end power and quieter leaving the neighborhood. Not for the way it looks but for all those reasons you specified it's in the running. |
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Mar 1, 2018 15:09:21 GMT -7
And then while browsing the tubes I came across this... 
"Yamaha MT-10 Akrapovic Exhaust: The exhaust in this video is custom made, the default Akrapovic slip on piece for the MT-10 that is available produces almost the same sound as the original one. This exhaust is custom made by Pajic in R & D in Gaanderen (Netherlands), It's based on the carbon silencer of a Kawasaki Z1000, Everything up from the Exhaust manifold is completely custom made and the internal valve is welded on from the original exhaust system. (Otherwise the sound is really too loud)." |
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dfelt
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Post by dfelt on Mar 1, 2018 15:31:22 GMT -7
1.) What is the best SILENCER on the market today for a De Cat setup? (something that achieves middle ground - somewhere between Cat -------> De Cat) My interpretation of the silencer is the baffle inside of the muffler. For my delkelvic and a lot of other aftermarket exhausts this is a removable piece that you can take out of the exhaust which will make the exhaust louder. 2.) If the Exup valve is considered important by many then why not have an option to keep it with a Decat setup? Wouldn't this also help mitigate some of the excessive noise down low. Exup valve, at least to me, isn't considered "important" yes there is the issue of reduced back pressure that may cause a drop in some HP or torque at low RPM, but in a non race bike, I consider this negligible.
Additionally, this bike had BY FAR the loudest deacceleration popping of any bike I've owned. There is no way I would've maintained the aftermarket exhaust without a tune or at least block off plates to help mitigate this. I bring this up because your wife will DEFINITELY not be able to ride on the back of the bike with that exhaust popping of the non stock exhaust, so you would likely get a tune, which in turn should work out the power loss from the removal of the exup valve. 3.) Can the Exup valve still be used with the Akrapovic Mid pipe ? Not to my knowledge. I THINK The piece that you're pointing to is an extra O2 sensor port for an autotuner or something of that type of technology.since the exup valve is on the stock midpipe, you would remove the valve when you remove the stock midpipe, rendering the exup system useless I am in middle of winter and have to do fz10 ecu reflash yet.I checked all decat link pipes and went with Danmoto which is much less then all.The TIG welds were nice external and inside,fit up perfect,sensors fit, stock can on and it sounds real good. Phone mics do not give a good representation.Last bike was a HD Sportster with V and H curve radius pipes.That was very loud and I have a cop right across from me in the hood. Exup and Cat out and is 11.6 lbs.heavier than decat link installed.I may experiment with stock can sound attenuation(have cple.ideas)and plenty of time/tools.But for now it sounds good. |
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Post by evitzee on Mar 1, 2018 15:52:08 GMT -7
What are you really trying to do? More sound, more power, better look? Most likely a combination of the three. Before catalytic converters appeared on bikes the sound attenuation was done in the silencer (or muffler for North American folks) where baffles knocked down the sound coming directly from the headers and often these units were huge to get the job done. Now with a cat in the system the exhaust cleanup is done in the cat bread box which also has baffles to take care of the sound. The silencer is almost redundant and it is basically a straight pass through affair. Some bikes have a very small silencer that exits right behind the rider's footpeg (like the MT-09 and MT-07) and they are almost not needed. If you remove the cat you are going to get a lot more sound no matter what kind of 'silencer' you put on. Since time immemorial the first thing guys would do on a new bike is pull off the stock silencer and put an aftermarket one on, and often the bike would run worse. It sounds to me that you don't want an overly obnoxious sound so just be aware you will have a problem with that if you dump the cat. Some people like a loud machine and people's tolerances for noise vary all over the place so just because an owner says the sound isn't too bad with his decat system doesn't mean it will be tolerant for you. Don't work on the exhaust system just because you feel you need to 'do something'. Have a purpose in mind and be aware you might not like what you end up with.
Here is a good video about aftermarket exhausts:
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Mar 1, 2018 17:36:54 GMT -7
Thanks for the info. I've watched that clip before and it's good value.
As I said I'm happy with the look of stock(the graves not so much), stock power is fine also and the recently installed quickshifter will keep me going for a while longer. I don't race on track so any additional gains in performance are just bonus'. Quickshifters also assisted greatly when we 2up, loving it.
So to answer your question, better sound is what I'm after without being obnoxiously loud and If I'm spending on a new can id like to think;
= or > stock (aesthetically - obviously subjective)
> stock (sound)
Preference for me, of course, would be to keep CAT(street legal) but if a solution existed with decat(not annoyingly loud - as you say graves EVR) then that could be ok also.
Previously
Got close to pulling the trigger on an SC PROJECT S1(supposedly best option for those keeping cat) but someone on another forum I was following got it and sold it straight after...
Without hearing one in person makes the final decision difficult. If money was of no consequence then who cares, right.
End result for the S1 if note/sound is not up to my expectations then I'm left with a can that doesn't have a silencer/baffle option should I need to go to decat.
So SC project has since released the Conic version as I've just discovered, with removeable DB killer, might need to look into that or even if the CRT version might be better than S1.
The aim here is for me is to learn a thing or two, discover options I didn't know exist(like gutting out the cat) and ultimately help others looking for a better note/sound make an informed decision should they be contemplating the same things I do.
So as always thanks for the continued interest and sharing of information. These boards as always have been stellar.
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kratosfz10
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Post by kratosfz10 on Mar 1, 2018 17:47:51 GMT -7
I have the Hindle 3/4 system. I purchased the system with the Evolution muffler, and actually had them make the muffler 14" rather than 12", which is what it normally comes with. Even with the slightly longer muffler, it almost seemed like there was no muffler at all, and it would drone terribly in my full-face helmet. So, like mentioned above, I started wearing earplugs. The problem with that is my girlfriend rides too, and we have communicators, so now I was struggling to hear her. So, I purchased the db killer (baffle), but when I installed that, it was barely, I MEAN barely any different sounding than stock. So, I ended up getting a Hindle Euro Stealth muffler, also 14", to replace the Evolution muffler. It turned cold by the time I got the Stealth muffler installed, so I haven't been able to see if it will drone as bad as the Evolution muffler. But just hearing it in the garage and taking it down the street and back, the sound (to me) is much better. The exhaust now sounds more "muffled" but not near as quiet as stock.
So, in the end, if you don't want the exhaust much, if any, louder than stock, just get what you like the looks of and make sure they offer a db killer and go ahead and purchase that along with the exhaust.
If you are looking for "your" perfect sound, that will be tricky without being able to sample different exhausts in person.
Other companies also offer different packing options for their mufflers, you'll just have to do some research.
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Mar 1, 2018 17:58:39 GMT -7
kratosfz10 thanks for the info and honest view point.
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kratosfz10
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Post by kratosfz10 on Mar 1, 2018 18:04:11 GMT -7
No problem, PipeWerx is another company that offers different canister and packing options. I've had their mufflers as well and highly recommend them. Their db killer looks pretty cool too with an "X" cut in the end, depending on which canister you purchase.
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Mar 2, 2018 22:02:13 GMT -7
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sam07
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Post by sam07 on Mar 3, 2018 5:00:40 GMT -7
Take your muffler off and go for a ride. If it’s too loud, don’t go with a 3/4 set up. Go with a slip on.
I went with the Yosh alpha 3/4 and without the DB killer, imo it’s super loud and how the bike should sound. I love it. The DB killer seriously quiets down the noise level plus the pipe has a single o2 bung for a wide band setup.
You will need to either install block off plates at the same time or turn the AIS off by a proper tune because she will backfire bad.
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Mar 4, 2018 1:05:13 GMT -7
Take your muffler off and go for a ride. If it’s too loud, don’t go with a 3/4 set up. Go with a slip on. Wouldn't taking the muffler off for a ride be closer to just swapping the stock can with a slip on that has no baffle? Like, say, the sc project CRT...rather than a 3/4 setup? Was planning on taking stock off for a ride tomorrow so I guess I'l know more then. |
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sam07
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Post by sam07 on Mar 4, 2018 4:46:42 GMT -7
I rolled like this for a week testing my regular commute. It wasn’t loud enough cruising and on the highway so I went 3/4. It’s all boils down to personal preference.
Texting and driving is a huge problem so I want to wake the dead when I hit the gas. FTW!
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Mar 4, 2018 17:00:57 GMT -7
I'l be rolling like that for the rest of today. Thanks for the Vid.
Also, the state cemetery lies at the end of our street and I text while riding just fine. FTD!
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Kameo
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Post by Kameo on Mar 4, 2018 17:05:36 GMT -7
Before heading out today, minus the can, I put together a video with Decibel X levels.
The difference between stock MT-10 with and without can.
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