fzdeek
New Member
My 3rd FZ/MT10
Posts: 11
Likes: 6
Registered: Jan 29, 2018 13:32:55 GMT -7
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Post by fzdeek on Feb 13, 2018 9:07:49 GMT -7
Has anyone installed this on their bike? I talked with Nels yesterday and he was saying this could increase MPG by 20% at the same time it adds 5 hp plus will smoothe out the throttle response and make on the fly tuning for different Fuel grades and quality. PLus a bunch of other stuff, but as I want to use this bike for touring like I did my gen 1 FZ1 I am thinking about doing it just for the MPG increase.
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Post by achrista on Feb 13, 2018 9:27:55 GMT -7
my AFR system should be arriving tomorrow so I can let you know what results I get. Spring weather is just around the corner in DC.
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fzdeek
New Member
My 3rd FZ/MT10
Posts: 11
Likes: 6
Registered: Jan 29, 2018 13:32:55 GMT -7
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Post by fzdeek on Feb 13, 2018 10:09:02 GMT -7
my AFR system should be arriving tomorrow so I can let you know what results I get. Spring weather is just around the corner in DC. Will you be installing and updating the ECU yourself or having it done? Do you already have a tune/flashed ecu? What pipe you running? |
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Post by achrista on Feb 13, 2018 10:56:44 GMT -7
it sounds like he's going through nels.
My flash was by 2wdw and it'll support a Graves EVR 3/4 w/ the active tune system.
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djstraub
New Member
Posts: 33
Likes: 3
Registered: Jan 29, 2018 17:03:58 GMT -7
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Post by djstraub on Mar 11, 2018 8:16:46 GMT -7
With the Ecu flash / active tune / decat exhaust is there any need for a PC 5 ?
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kratosfz10
Full Member
Posts: 103 
Likes: 32
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Post by kratosfz10 on Mar 11, 2018 8:43:57 GMT -7
With a mail order ECU flash, a PC5 is not necessary, but may allow you to improve the fueling specifically for your bike. If your specific bike is tuned on a dyno and the ECU flashed, then I wouldn't see a need for the PC5.
If you are using Active Tune, that pretty much takes the place of the fueling portion of the PC5 w/autotune. (except that Active Tune makes fueling changes to the ECU and the PCV makes changes to its own fuel map)
If you get your ECU flashed for your mods, then the Active Tune would have less "work" to do, as the fueling should already be much closer to correct. Same would be true for the PC5.
Also keep in mind that the end result, when adding any auto-tuning device (if it is air/fuel based) will only be as good as the afr values you use.
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Post by stoltecmoto on Mar 11, 2018 19:45:50 GMT -7
With a mail order ECU flash, a PC5 is not necessary, but may allow you to improve the fueling specifically for your bike. If your specific bike is tuned on a dyno and the ECU flashed, then I wouldn't see a need for the PC5. If you are using Active Tune, that pretty much takes the place of the fueling portion of the PC5 w/autotune. (except that Active Tune makes fueling changes to the ECU and the PCV makes changes to its own fuel map) If you get your ECU flashed for your mods, then the Active Tune would have less "work" to do, as the fueling should already be much closer to correct. Same would be true for the PC5. Also keep in mind that the end result, when adding any auto-tuning device (if it is air/fuel based) will only be as good as the afr values you use. Agreed on all points. The Active Tune is a really great kit that makes a nice improvement in smoothness, fuel economy, and power delivery. That said, we always encourage customers to have the bike side flashing harness installed on the bike so that you can make refinements. It's important to note that there are two operating modes with the Active Tune Kit: 1. Auto mode - this continually makes changes (up to 10%) while riding. You don't need to do anything. 2. Manual mode - this allows you to run the bike (on the dyno, track, or road) and then pull the suggested map changes before keying off. You can save them for analysis and apply the changes to the base maps. This is important because if the Active Tune is run in auto mode and tries to make a change greater than 10%, it can't. Greater changes also involve a bit of 'delay' to handle the processing/corrections. So the closer you can get your base map, the finer the auto mode correction will need to be. Like a coarse and fine correction. Spending a bit of time making iterative changes really makes a nice change to smoothness. It's not required, but it pays dividends. This is also what will allow the Active Tune to make nearly perfect fuel maps as you make changes with different intakes, exhausts, etc. The only hitch is that you can't benefit from this mode if you are running a mail-in reflash. You're limited to the auto mode. As you make the iterative changes with the manual mode you'll find the changes will get smaller and smaller. Once the changes approach zero, throw it in auto mode and enjoy. The smoothness will blow your mind, because you're literally remapping EVERY nook and cranny of both sets of fuel maps. To get this on the dyno, you'd need to spend hours and hours (and hours and hours). |
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17fz10
New Member
Posts: 16
Registered: Mar 11, 2018 13:40:52 GMT -7
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Post by 17fz10 on Mar 15, 2018 13:38:17 GMT -7
With a mail order ECU flash, a PC5 is not necessary, but may allow you to improve the fueling specifically for your bike. If your specific bike is tuned on a dyno and the ECU flashed, then I wouldn't see a need for the PC5. If you are using Active Tune, that pretty much takes the place of the fueling portion of the PC5 w/autotune. (except that Active Tune makes fueling changes to the ECU and the PCV makes changes to its own fuel map) If you get your ECU flashed for your mods, then the Active Tune would have less "work" to do, as the fueling should already be much closer to correct. Same would be true for the PC5. Also keep in mind that the end result, when adding any auto-tuning device (if it is air/fuel based) will only be as good as the afr values you use. Agreed on all points. The Active Tune is a really great kit that makes a nice improvement in smoothness, fuel economy, and power delivery. That said, we always encourage customers to have the bike side flashing harness installed on the bike so that you can make refinements. It's important to note that there are two operating modes with the Active Tune Kit: 1. Auto mode - this continually makes changes (up to 10%) while riding. You don't need to do anything. 2. Manual mode - this allows you to run the bike (on the dyno, track, or road) and then pull the suggested map changes before keying off. You can save them for analysis and apply the changes to the base maps. This is important because if the Active Tune is run in auto mode and tries to make a change greater than 10%, it can't. Greater changes also involve a bit of 'delay' to handle the processing/corrections. So the closer you can get your base map, the finer the auto mode correction will need to be. Like a coarse and fine correction. Spending a bit of time making iterative changes really makes a nice change to smoothness. It's not required, but it pays dividends. This is also what will allow the Active Tune to make nearly perfect fuel maps as you make changes with different intakes, exhausts, etc. The only hitch is that you can't benefit from this mode if you are running a mail-in reflash. You're limited to the auto mode. As you make the iterative changes with the manual mode you'll find the changes will get smaller and smaller. Once the changes approach zero, throw it in auto mode and enjoy. The smoothness will blow your mind, because you're literally remapping EVERY nook and cranny of both sets of fuel maps. To get this on the dyno, you'd need to spend hours and hours (and hours and hours). So basically what you're saying is that you can use the Active Tune without having the ECU flashed? For me, the bike has plenty of power. I would just like to make sure that I don't run into any problems at higher altitudes. I basically live at sea-level. Also, It would be nice to have more precise fueling, which would hopefully improve MPG's. |
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Post by achrista on Mar 15, 2018 19:42:15 GMT -7
I don't think he said that, and I'm pretty sure the active tune system will throw a CEL if you don't flash the ecu beforehand. it replaces an oem o2 sensor with a wide band sensor. For your purposes, the oem o2 sensors will compensate for any altitudinal changes you may encounter should you leave your current location.
If you're happy with the current map, keep it oem. If you want 'more precise fueling' you have to modify the fuel map via ecu flash or fuel controller. Either way, you need to go to a dyno or get a map from someone well-versed on this bike on a dyno to do this. Additionally, if you just flash or run your bike on a dyno (with no adaptive system) you will get a static map that won't adjust to temp/altitude/etc. changes. That is where an active system comes into play.
Stoltec elaborated on how you can BENCH FLASH an active tune system to optimize your map and pointed out how it would be nearly impossible to achieve (or at least waste a lot of time to nearly-achieve) comparable results on a dyno.
To be the bearer of bad news -- mileage on this bike is going to be bad no matter what you do. That's the price you pay for the rest of the package.
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Post by stoltecmoto on Mar 16, 2018 7:07:50 GMT -7
I don't think he said that, and I'm pretty sure the active tune system will throw a CEL if you don't flash the ecu beforehand. it replaces an oem o2 sensor with a wide band sensor. For your purposes, the oem o2 sensors will compensate for any altitudinal changes you may encounter should you leave your current location. If you're happy with the current map, keep it oem. If you want 'more precise fueling' you have to modify the fuel map via ecu flash or fuel controller. Either way, you need to go to a dyno or get a map from someone well-versed on this bike on a dyno to do this. Additionally, if you just flash or run your bike on a dyno (with no adaptive system) you will get a static map that won't adjust to temp/altitude/etc. changes. That is where an active system comes into play. Stoltec elaborated on how you can BENCH FLASH an active tune system to optimize your map and elaborated on why it would be nearly impossible to achieve (or at least waste a lot of time to nearly-achieve) comparable results on a dyno. To be the bearer of bad news -- mileage on this bike is going to be bad no matter what you do. That's the price you pay for the rest of the package. Good summary! |
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jroc
Junior Member
Posts: 98
Likes: 39
Registered: Feb 18, 2018 7:47:50 GMT -7
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Post by jroc on Mar 16, 2018 11:51:55 GMT -7
This is a perfectly timed topic for me! I'm currently shopping for a flash and auto tune kit. Trying to make an educated decision between Flash Tune and Woolich. It seems like the Woolich setup could potentially be better if you add the Race Tools package, which is a lot cheaper than Flash Tune's auto blipper and comes with several other features.
Hmmmmm decisions decisions
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kratosfz10
Full Member
Posts: 103
Likes: 32
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Post by kratosfz10 on Mar 16, 2018 12:03:04 GMT -7
This is a perfectly timed topic for me! I'm currently shopping for a flash and auto tune kit. Trying to make an educated decision between Flash Tune and Woolich. It seems like the Woolich setup could potentially be better if you add the Race Tools package, which is a lot cheaper than Flash Tune's auto blipper and comes with several other features. Hmmmmm decisions decisions I may be wrong, but I don't believe Woolich is an auto-tune system. You can data log while you ride, then input the suggested values into the fuel map later by connecting your pc, but I don't think it makes real-time changes to the fuel map. |
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steves
New Member
Posts: 41
Likes: 13
Registered: Jan 22, 2018 18:30:53 GMT -7
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Post by steves on Mar 17, 2018 10:36:16 GMT -7
To be the bearer of bad news -- mileage on this bike is going to be bad no matter what you do. That's the price you pay for the rest of the package. Good summary! I can accept that, but (for those who've installed this setup), did mileage decrease, increase, or stay the same? I'd be fine with no increase, but I wouldn't be fine with a decrease, giving even less range than stock. |
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Post by stoltecmoto on Mar 17, 2018 18:06:36 GMT -7
Our bike, in it's fully tuned state, would average around 32-34 mpg for all around street riding (a mix of everything). Straight up 80 mph cruising on the slab, it would be in the 37-40 mpg range. But like all bikes, once the go stick was twisted, mileage dropped accordingly.
Frankly, there are too many variables to make any promises either way.
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