need2blower
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Post by need2blower on Jul 3, 2019 17:36:14 GMT -7
I can get downshifts to work 99% of the time - The only time I cant is when RPM's are very low (like below 3k). To be specific, I can be 100% off of the throttle (fully engine braking) and tap the shift lever down and the bike will auto blip into the lower gear. If yours doesn't do this, i would try switching the two single wire white plugs and see if it changes anything.
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bhilker0604
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Post by bhilker0604 on Jul 3, 2019 19:43:25 GMT -7
FTECU replied saying they did indeed send me the wrong quick shift/auto-blipper...They sent me the EU (Europe) version with the round type pin connector on the green wire which directions say plugs into pin #12 on smaller square OE harness. I have an 18 MT-10 but apparently its the same as the FZ so therefor I should have received that sensor which has the square type connector at the end of the green wire..it goes into pin #2 of larger OE harness.. FTECU say they are shipping the correct one so I will report back in a week or so with results..I hope no long term damage occurs with my clutch or transmission etc due to wrong part and me attempting multiple rides of miss shifts, false neutrals and hard banging downshift attempts...
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arkenskooter
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Post by arkenskooter on Jul 3, 2019 19:45:04 GMT -7
I can get downshifts to work 99% of the time - The only time I cant is when RPM's are very low (like below 3k). To be specific, I can be 100% off of the throttle (fully engine braking) and tap the shift lever down and the bike will auto blip into the lower gear. If yours doesn't do this, i would try switching the two single wire white plugs and see if it changes anything. Thanks, I'll try and observe it keenly. The plugs were switched, and didn't work at all in that configuration. The way it is now, upshifts work perfectly, and the more I use it, the higher percentage of successful downshifts I see (I want to say in the 90% range). I feel like it's a matter of getting used to the way of downshifting.
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Deleted
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Registered: May 14, 2024 3:45:07 GMT -7
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 22:58:20 GMT -7
Even on BMW S1000R/RR bikes, with factory up/down QSs, you need to completely close the throttle for clutchless downshifts to occur. If you have the throttle open even 1%, you cannot downshift without the clutch. Therefore, I'd NEVER try to downshift any other way, especially on a bike not equipped with that from the factory (like ours). I'd never add that to my bike without an expert stating the tranny is not getting worn sooner, since factory equipped bikes might have beefier gears/dogs. On BMWs, the downshifts don't feel quite right, hence my comment above, let alone on a bike not designed for that. Heck, even the 1-2 clutchless upshift feels crappy on my bike. Finally, it's part of the fun to learn how to do proper rev-matched downshifts, but to each his own, I guess .
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bigweb2001
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Post by bigweb2001 on Jul 4, 2019 7:43:10 GMT -7
FTECU replied saying they did indeed send me the wrong quick shift/auto-blipper...They sent me the EU (Europe) version with the round type pin connector on the green wire which directions say plugs into pin #12 on smaller square OE harness. I have an 18 MT-10 but apparently its the same as the FZ so therefor I should have received that sensor which has the square type connector at the end of the green wire..it goes into pin #2 of larger OE harness.. FTECU say they are shipping the correct one so I will report back in a week or so with results..I hope no long term damage occurs with my clutch or transmission etc due to wrong part and me attempting multiple rides of miss shifts, false neutrals and hard banging downshift attempts... Damn, I got the wrong wire too! I got the round pin, should have gotten the square!!!! Will hit them up...
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motrrrpsycho
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Post by motrrrpsycho on Jul 6, 2019 9:41:49 GMT -7
I just installed on my 2019 and quick shift (upshift / pull) is working but auto-blip downshifting (push) is NOT working (my instructions say hole 2 for the green wire but they also say 16-17 model). Sounds like others are having similar problems? I wonder if the ECU might have changed in any way from the 17 to the newer models since 18 and newer get a factory quick shift?
need2blower what year is yours? And when you say switch the 2 white plugs - are you talking about the 2 connectors? I tried switching those and then neither upshift or downshift worked. I switched back and upshift works again but still no downshift.
Has anyone got it working on a 18 or 19 yet???
I'll be calling FTECU on Monday.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2019 10:39:42 GMT -7
I bet it makes you cringe when trying clutchless shifts without the QS unit working, especially downshifts, no? But I assume the tranny is robust enough to take some punishment, right? We all have missed 2nd on the 1-2 shift at the beginning (hitting N instead), with the accompanying 'BANG!' when shifting to 2nd after that (even when trying to rev-match the shift). Or shifting without releasing the throttle, and similar tranny-abusing behavior. So I hope it's stout enough for such unintentional behavior .
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motrrrpsycho
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Post by motrrrpsycho on Jul 8, 2019 19:51:37 GMT -7
Called FTECU today and learned the following: * For 2017 US FZ10 models, you need the FZ10 kit with square wire end that plugs into the larger wire harness position 2 * For 2018 or newer US MT10 (or EU MT10) models, you need the MT10 kit with round wire end that plugs into the smaller harness (not sure what position but will update when I get it)
They are shipping me the MT10 wire harness and instructions, which I will install, test and share results as soon as I can
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2019 11:55:23 GMT -7
So guess changes from 2017 to 2018 were more than just a standard QS. The QS was optional for 2017, so all of us thought no other changes. So the ECU changed then? And how about the harness? Are the connectors different? Just curious what exactly changed. Good info. Thx.
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need2blower
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Post by need2blower on Jul 10, 2019 14:15:45 GMT -7
Called FTECU today and learned the following: * For 2017 US FZ10 models, you need the FZ10 kit with square wire end that plugs into the larger wire harness position 2 * For 2018 or newer US MT10 (or EU MT10) models, you need the MT10 kit with round wire end that plugs into the smaller harness (not sure what position but will update when I get it) They are shipping me the MT10 wire harness and instructions, which I will install, test and share results as soon as I can My bike is a 2019 and I'm running the square pin in the larger harness slot 2 and it works 99% of the time ?!?! The 2 plugs were the ones I was talking about, sounds like you got that situation figured out. Let me know how the new configuration they send works out, it's weird that mine works how it is - if it needs to be changed to work flawlessly I'll contact ft as well and get the new configuration.
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motrrrpsycho
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Post by motrrrpsycho on Jul 10, 2019 20:00:19 GMT -7
Wow, that's kind of disconcerting.... I haven't got the other harness and instructions yet, hoping to get them and try next day or two. Let us know what they say if you contact them.
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bhilker0604
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Post by bhilker0604 on Jul 12, 2019 8:33:59 GMT -7
I was sent round pin 2nd time around for my 2018 MT-10. 1st time they sent square pin...I am waiting until I can call FTECU and verify then install and test.
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bhilker0604
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Post by bhilker0604 on Jul 12, 2019 16:55:42 GMT -7
Just got off the phone with FTECU and the lead tech has an FZ10 and said the MT10 uses round pin (green lead). MT10 and MT10 European version. I installed and will test tomorrow and report back. MT10 green lead (round pin) installs in smaller OE harness into #12
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motrrrpsycho
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Post by motrrrpsycho on Jul 13, 2019 12:37:03 GMT -7
I'm striking out so far. Got the harness with the round pin and installed (per new instructions) to hole 12 in the smaller harness, and still no luck. Hope yours works bhiker - let us know.
One tip in case this helps anyone (not that mine is working but...) look at the front side of the harness for the wire end to come through to make sure it seems about the same depth as the others and that it did not get bent/squished during install, and also check the ECU side to make sure no pins are bent.
Another thing suggested to me was to use a multimeter to check continuity on the lead of the push sensor when downshifting. I don't actually have a multimeter or know how to use one myself, but in case that helps anyone else.
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tier1
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Post by tier1 on Jul 15, 2019 13:29:06 GMT -7
The green wire installs in pin position #2. I had a square plug in my kit, and installed it in a 2019. Seems to be working as it should about 99% of the time
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need2blower
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Post by need2blower on Jul 15, 2019 17:41:22 GMT -7
The green wire installs in pin position #2. I had a square plug in my kit, and installed it in a 2019. Seems to be working as it should about 99% of the time Same here on a 2019 US Mt-10. I'm going to see if i can find wiring diagrams for us and put this issue to rest. motrrrpsycho, if neither config is working for you i would say it's time to check the ECU flash and make sure the feature is enabled.
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motrrrpsycho
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Post by motrrrpsycho on Aug 2, 2019 17:56:00 GMT -7
Finally got mine working having done this update to my harness from FTECU: forum.ftecu.com/discussion/217/attention-quickshift-or-auto-blip-issues-2017-can-euro-yamaha-r6-2017-r1-or-mt10Mine is a 2019 and I have the MT-10 harness with round wire end in position 12 of the smaller of the two connectors of the ECU wire harness. This is the correct one according to what FTECU told me, but it didn't work until I did the wire swap per the instructions in the above link. No idea why the square pin in position 2 of the larger harness works for tier1 and need2blower, but that did not work on mine. Not sharing this to disagree, but just sharing what worked for me in case it helps others.
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need2blower
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Post by need2blower on Aug 2, 2019 18:08:23 GMT -7
Finally got mine working having done this update to my harness from FTECU: forum.ftecu.com/discussion/217/attention-quickshift-or-auto-blip-issues-2017-can-euro-yamaha-r6-2017-r1-or-mt10Mine is a 2019 and I have the MT-10 harness with round wire end in position 12 of the smaller of the two connectors of the ECU wire harness. This is the correct one according to what FTECU told me, but it didn't work until I did the wire swap per the instructions in the above link. No idea why the square pin in position 2 of the larger harness works for tier1 and need2blower, but that did not work on mine. Not sharing this to disagree, but just sharing what worked for me in case it helps others. Glad you got it working! Very interesting that its hit or miss with which setup works. I wonder if Yamaha switched something in the harness/ecu mid year 19. Either way hopefully one of these two setups will fix everyone's issues. Thanks for updating!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2019 10:59:50 GMT -7
As a related question, can somebody with the mechanical knowledge please explain exactly what happens on clutchless downshifts? The upshifts are easy to understand, since you can make them yourself by just closing the throttle while up-shifting, which the ECU mimicks by interrupting engine power momentarily (there're several ways to do that, but not sure how it's done on our FZ/MT-10. If somebody knows, please state as well). But manual clutchless downshifts can ruin a motorcycle transmission, so don't understand how they can be made with a manual clutch without any long-term detrimental effects, especially with the addition of a throttle blip. Easily done with a dual-clutch transmission with electronic clutch control, but on a manual bike? And yes, I understand other higher-end bikes (including the R1) have that feature from the factory now, so maybe not that detrimental. But still don't understand how you can mechanically release a manual clutch and blip the throttle while downshifting in a smooth manner (I assume it's smooth, right?), like we have to do without such gizmo. Just curious .
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need2blower
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Post by need2blower on Aug 3, 2019 11:36:10 GMT -7
As a related question, can somebody with the mechanical knowledge please explain exactly what happens on clutchless downshifts? The upshifts are easy to understand, since you can make them yourself by just closing the throttle while up-shifting, which the ECU mimicks by interrupting engine power momentarily (there're several ways to do that, but not sure how it's done on our FZ/MT-10. If somebody knows, please state as well). But manual clutchless downshifts can ruin a motorcycle transmission, so don't understand how they can be made with a manual clutch without any long-term detrimental effects, especially with the addition of a throttle blip. Easily done with a dual-clutch transmission with electronic clutch control, but on a manual bike? And yes, I understand other higher-end bikes (including the R1) have that feature from the factory now, so maybe not that detrimental. But still don't understand how you can mechanically release a manual clutch and blip the throttle while downshifting in a smooth manner (I assume it's smooth, right?), like we have to do without such gizmo. Just curious . Upshifts are easy like you said...either a quick ignition or fuel cut to take the load off of the gearbox and it slides right into the next gear. We used to do this on the older bikes by just putting pressure on the shift pedal and wait till the bike hit the rev limiter. The downshifts are all about matching shaft speeds in the gearbox. Going to a lower gear means the input shaft needs to speed up which is why the throttle needs to be blipped. It can be done without ever disengaging the clutch if the speeds are matched. The gears on these bikes are also straight cut dog-engagement gears which can take significantly more abuse. The reason the bike can blip the throttle by itself is because the throttle bodies are electronically actuated, not actually run by cable like the older bikes (yes there are still cables on these bikes, but they run to a sensor instead of the actual throttles). This is also why the bike has such good traction control - it can completely close the throttle even if your wrist stays pegged back on the bar. Anyways back to the shifts...your manual car can work off the same concept. Get the car rolling and put it in neutral - dont touch the clutch and rev the engine up to where it should be for the gear you want and it will slide right in. I don't suggest doing this in your car all the time. In neutral, the load is off of the transmission, but there is also a point at zero throttle right before you hit the point of engine braking that the load is also off of the gearbox. That is the concept used for clutchless downshifting...zero throttle to take load off, slip out of gear, rev match, slip into lower gear. It all just happens quick enough to make it seamless.
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